Chasing the NFL dream, life on the Chiefs, and hunting season with James Winchester

This week on Dealer Out of Office, hosts Frank Zombo and Jake Berkal are joined by James Winchester, a longtime Kansas City Chiefs long snapper and three-time Super Bowl champion. The conversation dives into the uncertain path that led James to the NFL—and what kept him there.

From Small-Town Oklahoma to Oklahoma Football

James grew up in a small town outside of Norman, Oklahoma, graduating in a class of just 52 students. He wasn’t highly recruited out of high school, but he had one clear goal: play football at the University of Oklahoma. Following family precedent (his father and sister were both walk-ons), he arrived in Norman in 2008 as a walk-on wide receiver.

That plan changed quickly. Competing against elite Division I talent made playing time hard to come by, but an unexpected opening appeared when Oklahoma lost its long snapper to injury. James volunteered, learned the position on the fly, and did enough to earn the starting role early. By the end of his college career, he was the Sooners’ long snapper, had earned a scholarship, and still carried the belief that wide receiver might be his future.

A Reality Check After College

When James graduated in 2012, the NFL wasn’t waiting. He received a brief rookie minicamp tryout with the Chiefs but was released after three days. With no contract and no clear path forward, he took a job in oil and gas to pay the bills while continuing to train.

Those years tested his patience. He worked contract jobs that allowed him to continue training and attending specialist camps. He attended multiple long snapper camps, earned short workouts with teams, and was released more than once. 

By early 2015, with his wedding approaching, he was close to walking away. As James explained,

“I was probably two weeks away from hanging it up.”

The timing and financial pressure forced him to question how long he could realistically keep chasing the NFL.

The Direct Conversation That Changed Everything

The turning point came from a blunt conversation with longtime coach Gary Gibbs. James recalls Gibbs telling him clearly that wide receiver was no longer realistic—and that long snapping was his path forward.

‍“Your ticket to the NFL is to long snap.”

That clarity changed everything. He committed fully, gained nearly 35 pounds, and focused exclusively on the position.

That decision paid off. At a specialist camp in Arizona, Chiefs assistant Brock Olivo noticed him and brought him in for a workout. James signed with Kansas City in 2015.

Life in the NFL: Staying Competitive With Yourself

James is candid about his early years in the NFL. He didn’t feel established. He credits coaches who believed in him, a strong team, and an approach centered on constant self-critique. He describes competing less against others and more against his own standards.

‍“I tried to train in the offseason like they were going to bring in the best long snapper in and I'd need to beat him out,” he said.

That mindset helped him stay consistent, earn trust, and become part of a stable core within the Chiefs organization.

Life Outside Football: Hunting, Land, and Family

Outside the football, James spends much of his time hunting and working land. He talks about managing property, creating habitat, and involving his son in the outdoors. For him, hunting isn’t just about the harvest—it’s about preparation, patience, and time spent together.

‍Jake: What's up everybody? Welcome [00:01:00] back to Dealer out of Office. I'm your host, Jake Burkel. Alongside my good buddy Frank Zobo. We got a good one for you today. Um, it's a flu game for me. All right. I'm a little hoarse. We're gonna push through, we're gonna power through. I do have some lozenges in the old auto hauler, uh, hoodie here. Uh, we're gonna make it work, but we have a phenomenal guest on a good buddy of yours. A uh, uh, current member of the Kansas City Chiefs three time Super Bowl champion. James Winchester on the program. What's up buddy? What's up guys? How's it going? It's going, dude. How are you man? I'm doing great. We're a appreciate little beat up here, but, uh, we're, we're rolling.

Jake: You got a set up behind you. I like this. This is a first class organization by Kansas City. Making, you know, getting you set up, looking, making. That's right. It's always, 

James: it's always nice to know a guy that's got a nice office.

Jake: Awesome man. Well, James, again, thank you for jumping on. Um, the whole premise of this podcast is like, we wanna talk about everything outside of the office. So your office is on a [00:02:00] football field, which we're obviously gonna get into, but we wanna talk about some of your hobbies outside of that. But before we even dive into any of that, I wanna know who's James Winchester, right? Tell the people at home where'd you grow up, kind of your, your, your path to where you're at now. Give us the, uh, the background. 

James: Yeah, so brief overview. Um, I grew up in Washington, Oklahoma, so born and raised Oklahoma City. Um, we moved to a small town south of Norman. Uh, town of 500, graduated with 52 kids, um, class A football. Um, I was, uh, not a highly recruited kid out of, out of high school, but, uh, had a dream to play at the University of Oklahoma, was the sooner. 

Growing up, my dad won a national championship back in 85. He was a walk-on, so. Um, my older sister walked onto the basketball program we just walk on was kind of in our blood.That's what we did and, and, um, I just would do anything to be a sooner and so really didn't have, uh, much desire to go play for any D twos around Oklahoma or Texas. And so, um, decided to walk on, um, in 2008 at Oklahoma. And, um, [00:03:00] I was a small town wide receiver. Thought I was pretty good. Um, obviously not a division one Uh, talent by any means, but decided that was the best position that I had an opportunity to make the squad. And so, uh, showed up in summer of oh eight, uh, in Norman for summer workouts. Soon. Found out I was gonna have a hard time making the team. Um, honestly, just, just a crazy thing. 

Um, the veteran long snapper at the time, his name was Derek Shaw, um, he had partially tore his Achilles tendon. And so they didn't have a long snapper. Like they didn't have a backup anyone. And so I grew up playing quarterback. Um, and uh, I thought, you know what? This is. If my dream is to be a sooner and make this squad like this is just a way to, you know, an avenue to make the team and then I can continue to prove myself as a whiteout. And so, uh, practiced as long snapper, a summer of oh eight, um, did well enough, wasn't great, did well enough, um, to, uh, get the starting job for the first three games in 2008. And then the veteran came back, back, backed him up. Uh, flash Forward, started as a long snapper sophomore, junior, senior year. Earned a scholarship, continued to play a wide receiver as a Rever Reserve role. Um, really didn't [00:04:00] see much time in the games, but. Felt like I was a pretty good athlete and that was obviously the dream to be a playmaker and play whiteout. So, uh, came to a crossroads, uh, my senior year at Oklahoma in, uh, spring of 2012. Um, I was, uh, basically I was a wide receiver with no experience and I was a long snapper that wasn't heavy enough, had the experience as a long snapper, didn't have the weight, so I was kind of in limbo. 

Um, only opportunity that I got, um, in 2012 coming out was a, uh, rookie mini camp tryout with the Kansas City Chiefs, which is kind of ironic. But, um, I was here, uh, long enough to have a cup of coffee, um, three days and they sent me home. Um, at that point, you know, went home and, and uh, was like, well, what am I gonna do now? Obviously, gotta get a job. And so then went into oil and gas and worked for three years and then ended up signing with the chiefs in 2015. I know we'll get into more of that, uh, as we go. 

Jake: So go, going back real quick, and you're going to Oklahoma, so you walk on as a receiver. You're not long snapper at this point?

James: No. 

Jake:What was the, oh shit moment that I'm not gonna be a receiver. Was there one that you just got, you [00:05:00] know, jammed at the line and knocked on your ass or anything like that where you're just like, maybe this receiver thing isn't for me. 

James: Yeah. You know, honestly there really wasn't I, um, I, you know, obviously it was fighting for playing time. That was kinda the biggest struggle. But I felt like, you know, I was putting out numbers. I was, you know, frustrated because I wasn't playing. But at the same time, I was her only long snapper. So I got quite a few talks from, uh, coach Bob Stoops about, you know, don't take this hit and don't take that hit 'cause we need you as a long snapper.

So I, I understood as a, as a head coach, it made sense like, protect your long snapper. And we have some other athletes to play whiteout. For me, I saw it the other way. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna prove all these dudes wrong and like, I'm gonna be the, the Rudy and gonna come from nothing and just show these guys and, and play for, you know, uh, and get some playing time.

But, you know, obviously, uh, as a, uh, walk on from a small school, you know, with recruited kids at a school like, uh, know, university of Oklahoma, tough to break into that. And so I, you know, I was, I always wanted to be a sooner, and so even when I was frustrated and, and thought, man, I, you know, I could go to.

Walk on at Oklahoma State or Texas Tech and maybe go try to [00:06:00] play as a whiteout. Um, I was living my dream as a sooner, my older sister was there, you know, my dad was alumni and so it just didn't make any sense, you know, I was like, I don't have it exactly how I want it, but um, I am living the dream. This is what I've always wanted to do. Yeah. 

Frank: And then James, you know, for normal positions. I should say linebackers, you know, those kind of guy, real players. We get done with, we get done with college and you're either drafted, you're undrafted, and then you're trying out for a squad, um, or you're, you know, you're drafted and you're on the squad and then you're trying to earn yourself the 53 man roster spot.

And then if you don't make it there, you're kind of bouncing to other teams, but you're still in it. If not, you're kind of going out to Europe or playing Canadian ball. Um, for you, you had a very unique way. To get in, and if you could talk about that a little bit of a journey of being a long snapper, and then what you did between.

Like, because I've, when you're a long snapper to talk about everybody, and you may, there's only 32 of them in the National Football League, and once you're in that spot, those guys are [00:07:00] pretty much, they get pretty tight with the special teams coach. They get tight with the punter in the long, in the, in the kicker, and they kind of form their own little crew.

So there's not a lot of turnover in that position. So it's a very hard position to crack into. So while you're waiting, talk a little bit about that journey from college is over. And I'm still trying to make it in the NFL. 

James: Yeah. So I go back to, uh, my senior year about, I don't know, three quarters of the way through the season.

I was standing on the sideline in practice and uh, our team chaplain, Ken Bowles, actually walked up to me and he is like, whatcha are you gonna do next year? I'm like, I mean, get a job. I don't know. This was the dream I wanted. Play four years at Oklahoma and then I'll figure out life from there. That was kind of it.

And he is like, you ever thought about the NFL? And I was like, I've thought about it, but you know, how does that happen? And he is like, well, you're gonna need an agent. So he kind of talked to me about I could go talk to this person, that person, and, and uh, that was kind of the, the, the point where I'm like, okay, maybe I should try for the NFL and like this could be a reality.

But at that time I still saw it as like, I'm gonna go make it as a wide receiver. I, I was not thinking the long snapper, so. After I graduated in 2012, gotta go get a job. And so I had some buddies of mine who were in oil and gas, um, working as landman. [00:08:00] Um, obviously you guys, the Landman is the show right now.

So everybody's seen that. That's essentially, uh, what I was doing on a smaller level. Wasn't quite up there with Billy Bob Thornton, but, uh, to that drink. But, uh, I was like the guy underneath. Billy Bob. So, um, but uh, I had some buddies that were doing it around Oklahoma and you know, I thought, you know, if I'm gonna go, if I'm gonna continue to try to work for this dream of playing in the N-F-N-F-L, um, one, I gotta get bigger.

I gotta get, um, you know, better at blocking and I get, you really need to become a better snapper. And so. Working a typical nine to five probably wasn't gonna work out in my favor. So I'm like, well, so oil and gas work, it's more of a contracted style work. So you know, day rate. So really if you wanted to take two hours at lunch, you wanna work in the morning, two hours at lunch, go work out, snap, you could do that.

And so I saw it as like, okay, this fits because. It'll allow me to go work at, you know, perfecting my craft and, and the weight room and I can still, you know, have a job that pays the bills. And so I did that for 20 12, 13, 14. Um, had a couple short stints, worked out with a couple teams. Um, and really those, those workouts [00:09:00] came from.

Um, there's a, uh, um, specialist camp out in Arizona. A guy by the name of the Gary Zaner puts those camps on. And, uh, he's a former, um, NFL coach, special teams. Bounced around Baltimore, um, Cardinals. Um, and what he did is after he retired, he started these specialist camps. So typically every year he has a college combine and a, um, you know, NFL free agent combine.

And for a guy like me, if you're out on the street. Um, you really don't have an opportunity to, to make a squad. You're not, you're not going to the combine that's already passed you by. And so it's a great opportunity to pay a fee and go, you know, work out. So usually he would take, you know, 30 snappers. 30 kickers, 30 punters.

And so I attended those camps in 13, 14, and 15 and got looks every year, signed once with the Eagles, and 2013 was there for two weeks, uh, got released. No one in 14. And then 15, uh, went to the same camp and obviously that's where I signed with Kansas City through. But yeah, for three years, just did oil and gas work and um, you know, was just trying to make ends meet.

And, um, you know, I was only about two weeks, probably two weeks away from actually hanging it up. My wife and I got married [00:10:00] March of 2015. And uh, I actually, the guy who runs the camp Coach Zaner, he gave me a call because I hadn't submitted my. Uh, payment for the camp because I, I was really conflicted about putting that towards my wedding.

Um, you know, weddings are expensive, uh, for you guys that are married out there, obviously. So you wanna try to contribute as much as you can. And, um, I was conflicted about paying that and he called me and said, Hey, I didn't see your name on the list. Are you, are you coming back this year for your third year?

And I'd been training, so I said, yes, sir, I'll send it in. And that was the camp that, um, I actually, uh, went to. And Brock Olivo a, uh, former, um, uh, assistant special teams coach in Kansas City. Uh, good friend of, of, uh, Frank and I. He, uh, he's the one who saw me out in Arizona and, and gave me an invite to come work out.

And then obviously got to, had the opportunity to work out for Coach Tobe and, uh, signed there and then, uh, the real journey begins. So it's like, you know, you never have that, like, I've made it moment. You're like, okay, now I gotta, like, I've earned an opportunity. Now I gotta try to prove that I can keep this thing and, and, uh, you know, week in and week out.

Frank: Yeah. And I know I've talked to you about your story in the past, and it relates [00:11:00] a little bit to mine, is we always. You kinda have these moments in your life where you make decisions, right? And you kind of reach like, almost like a rock bottom point. And I had this at one point, I remember coming outta college thinking, all right, I'm done with football.

Uh, I'm gonna focus on physical therapy or whatever major I, you know, as a health fitness major in college and I'm banged up from college, you know, college football. I don't, I don't think I'm gonna have a chance in the NFL. I don't know if I should try it. I don't know if I should waste that time or that money doing it.

And I remember being like one decision away from not pursuing football anymore. Um, I know you've reached that point before, whether it was a person, whether it was like Coach Gibbs talking to you at some point about, you know, changing over from wide receiver or, you know, and, and focusing just on long snapping.

We've all kind of had those moments. I also had a moment in my career where I was like, maybe I'm, I had a really good junior year. I was banged up my senior year coming outta college, and I'm like, yeah, I'm probably done. And I remember this like it was yesterday. I was, we were playing against Troy College in a bowl game.

Uh, it was the GMAC Bowl. It was after the New Year's [00:12:00] Bowl. And you're, you're just playing football, you know. You're just hoping the football season's about to end, you know, like you're past Christmas, you're past New Year, the, you know, just get, get me done. And I remember, uh, like three plays into a, a pass rush.

I overheard like the offensive tackle and the offensive guard talking, and they're like, and my confidence wasn't great at that point. Like I said, I was banged up, but I heard 'em two talk and they said, and I heard 'em say, are they as good as they say? Is he as good as they say? I'm like, did I just hear that right?

Did these guys like talk about, you know, 'cause we, sometimes you go into a game, you always wonder, you always talk about a guy like, oh shoot, you know, you better, you know, strap your, your helmet up. Like, this guy's about to bring it. But I heard those two guys talk about me and it gave me. Like a, a, a bunch of confidence for the rest of that game.

I end up having like three and a half sacks that game. Like, and I wish I would just go into that game with that much, you know, go into every game with that much confidence. But at that point I realized like I could play at the next level. Um, did you have any of those moments or anybody talk to you and it just gave you like, a new amount of confidence or, you know, you, you feel like you had that moment where you're like, [00:13:00] all right, I belong here, kind of thing.

James: Yeah, I mean, you know, to, to piggyback what you were saying, I, um, I mean I had, I had several of those moments, but one that I can think of is, um, you know, I was, I was still continue, I mean, even after I graduated in 12, I was still like, I'm gonna still prove everybody wrong. I'm gonna be a wider CI just, I was just naive.

I didn't understand how it worked, that you actually, you know, these guys, these scouts and, and, and guys that are obviously bringing talent in the NFL, like you're basing it off of what you see. And if you don't have reps, like they ain't going back to practice reps, they're going to game reps and see how you, how you perform.

And so, um, you know, after that rookie mini camp, um, you know, I go home and I'm like, you know, maybe there's another wide receiver opportunity out there. And, um, there's a, uh, gym in Norman called the Health Club. And, uh, you mentioned Coach Gary Gibbs. So Coach gi, coach Gibbs was the defensive coordinator for the Oklahoma Sooners back when my dad was in college.

So we knew Coach Gibbs and, um, I thought it was cool, you know, when I came to Kansas City, my dad was like, Hey, you know, you gotta tell Coach Gibbs high for me and Dad always, you know, you know, really respected Coach Gibbs. And so I, uh, I saw Coach gi, coach Gibbs up here at that camp. And then also I saw him, uh, when I [00:14:00] went back to Norman and I was working out and, you know, coach Gibbs, he likes to hit the elliptical, so he's over there like, just, just zoned in on, you know, what he is doing.

Frank obviously knows Coach Gibbs well, and, and uh, you know, so I walk over, tell, tell Coach Gibbs hello and, and, uh, this man is just staring straight ahead and, you know, he had this way of like talking kind of out the side of his mouth, like as he is working, like I'm working. You're kind of bothering me, but like I'll, I'll talk to you.

Not gonna, but I'm not gonna look you in the eye. And, uh, so I, I'm just saying hi to him or whatever, and, and he just basically said, you know, I, I know your, you know, your dream is to, you know, play wide receiver, but your ticket in the NFL is to long snap. And so really it was that moment that just totally like 180 flip for me.

And I'm like, okay. You know, he's right. You know, wide receiver's not gonna pan out. I don't have the experience, but I do have the experience and the athleticism if I can just gain some weight. You know, I, at that point I was like 207 pounds and you need to be at least 2 35, 2 40 to snap in the league to be able to protect.

And so I'm like, all right, that's what I needed to hear. So interestingly enough, the same guy in that gym who was actually trained in some, some other guys and was a trainer in the gym, I should say, uh, a guy by the name of Pete Martinelli, [00:15:00] he was the strength coach, uh, when Coach Gibbs was at Oklahoma, when my dad was at Oklahoma and  uh, coach Pete man, he like took me under his wing. He just gave me a full nutrition plan and, and, uh, you know, I would, at the time I actually actually broke my foot playing flag football. And so I would hobble in the weight room and he would put the weight on for me. And I mean, there for probably, I don't know, two months, month and a half, two months, that's all I did.

So I went from like 2 0 5 to two 40 and, uh, at that point I started actually getting looks as a long snapper. So that was definitely a, a, a turning point for me. 

Frank: Yeah. 

Jake: Love that. Before we move on to, to having, uh, Frankie as a teammate and kind of, I want to just wrap up your journey into the NFL and you, you mentioned just a few minutes ago that, you know, there was no real, like, I made it moment, right?

Like, you, you go, you get signed and now you're kind of in the thick of it, 11 years later, three Super Bowls. What's kind of been the, okay, I, I've done it right, like I'm here, I've made it, I'm. I'm where I need to be. Obviously that happened, you know, before those three Super Bowls, but what was the moment that was just like, I belong here. I'm a Kansas City [00:16:00] chief. I know I can play in this league. 

James: Yeah. I mean, you know, the first couple years I think anybody can agree, like you look back, you know, if you're in year 8, 10, 11, you look back on your first couple years and you're like, how why'd they even keep me around? Like, you just don't feel like you had had what it took.

And so you, you were very thankful for coaches that believed in you and saw something in you. You know? And, and, um, that's kinda how I feel. I mean, I look back and I'm like, man, that was kind of rough, that rookie season like. You know, thank, I'm glad Coach Tove decided to, uh, roll the dice on me and, and saw something in me.

But, um, yeah, I mean, with the success, I mean by the grace of God, you know, like have I landed in a, in a, in a, an amazing organization that was winning that, you know, we were winning when I got here. Frank was here with Alex. I mean, we kind of turned things around and, and so, you know, I wish I could claim that, but you know, personally, you just do what you can do, control what you can control, um, you know, and so that's what I tried to do every year.

You know, I did, I tried to not look at, you know, what contract I was on if I was on a five year or one year. Um, you know, I tried to train in the off season, like, um, you know, they were gonna bring the best long snapper in every year and just like, I'm gonna beat that dude out. So, [00:17:00] you know, became really good at competing against myself, like holding myself to a higher standard and saying like.

You know, this, this day or that day, snapping, like, it's just not good enough. You, you never really, I feel like for me, the way I, the way I look at it is like you never get to that point where you're good enough. You're always chasing it and you're not like, anxious that you're not there, but you're also like, I can be better every single day because that's the truth, right?

Like, we're human beings. We obviously err as a part of our being. So, um, you're never gonna be perfect. That perfect human beings never existed. So, um. You should try to strive to be your best. And so that's what I tried to do. And, and again, like, like I said, like thanks to God, like landed on a, an amazing team with a, with a lot of great teammates and coaches and, you know, coach Reed being here, it's just, it's been a dream come true, you know, to have that success as a team.

Frank: Yeah. And to  talk a little bit about that, James, is, I can relate. It's you, you get to that level, you almost gotta be your toughest critic of yourself, um, right when you're watching film. Um, coach isn't, he ain't gonna tell me something I don't already know. I can watch the [00:18:00] film and know I screwed up here.

I Well, you're a professional got man. Yes. So at that point, and James is doing what he's doing, he's obviously the best, he's definitely the best 32 outta the whole country. Sure. Of what he does. There's only 32 of, but he's one of the top tiered long snappers because he did get his weight up. He's a fast guy down the field.

We always say. The, the, the crowd shouldn't know the long snapper's name in a way because that's when I usually screw up, bog goes over somebody's head or whatever. But James is well known in the area, 'cause number one, he's big around the community. Um, but two is he's down there making plays. He uses that wide receiver speed to get down there and make plays.

Um, when James first became our long snapper and we had a very complicated way of blocking. Punt, um, punt return, uh, you know, uh, punt. But, and Dave Tobe, who is our special teams coach, who's still there, is, will go down as the best special teams coach ever to do it. Um, he had Devin Hester, he had, um, you know, he was the one that found Tyreek Hill, and when he brought James in it, you know, there's a lot of like eight box and seven box and ways [00:19:00] that the, the, the, the snappers included in the protection.

And the, and when James talks about his rookie year, things moving fast, like it, it was tough for him to pick things up. Luckily, he was fast and he could get that ball back there faster than anybody, but it took him a little bit to, to pick it up and to talk about experience. And how that goes about is the longer you play that stuff becomes where you don't have to think anymore, you're just reacting.

And now that he's in his 11th year, he might not be as fast as he was. That first year, but now that exactly, now he's just reacting to things when they're doing, you know, he's got his head between his legs, snapping that ball and there's 360 pound dudes lined up in his A gaps, you know, pick, twisting and things like that.

And he's able to just kind of fall back into the right position. And obviously he's got good guys around him that are well coached that, you know, can bail him outta different situations. But that's what comes with experience And, uh. And all that, but yeah. Yeah. 

Jake: What I heard from James that complacency means you're out of a job.

Frank: Yeah. I mean, they're always trying to bring somebody in there to replace you. Every year Dave would told story, my boy, my, the guy I [00:20:00] looked up to, like Gary Gibbs, I looked up to Dave Tobe, I looked up to Kevin Green. My coaches in the, in the NFL would tell me, every year, I'm bringing in a guy to replace you. I'm gonna draft somebody in the third, fourth, fifth round, and they're gonna take your job. Mm-hmm. That's why, that's why the NFL is what it is, and you continue to get better. And then James's situation too is like. In Kansas City, they've been good for so long that you kind of keep that same core group of guys together.

When it's working, it's not broken. There's not a lot of turnover. Like I, I wasn't the most, the fast. I was a good culture guy. Good locker room guy. Um, and, and glue guy. And, and that's what kept me in the, that's why I was able to play nine years. Um, and I was with winning teams. So they keep that core group of guys together until it doesn't work anymore.

Uh, you know, I hope that's not the case. I'm sure you know, Kansas City's still got great years ahead of 'em, but you may see some turnover, like now they're gonna look back and they're gonna. You know, it's probably us and we gotta look at what we gotta do internally, um, to get this thing right. We have a great quarterback, we got great player, you know, whatever [00:21:00] it is.

But, you know, that's why Andy Reid and and Brett Vecher are the best at what they do. Our general manager in Kansas or in Kansas City, but yeah. 

James: Yeah. Don't let Frank fool you, man. He was a heck of a player. Everybody around here in the organization, like Frank's one of the guys, he every, he like, he's the standard.

Everybody talks about zobo being this, obo being that, like for our new linebackers, you know, we've got some studs. Um, Frank is always the guy that they talk about like. The technician like Frank, you know, but he was equally as great of a guy, you know, in the building. And you know, obviously Frank makes his way back every now and then to, to see everybody and, and you know, honestly, like Frank mentioned, you know, we've retained a lot of the same people, you know, to hit on that.

Like we, we've had a lot of coaches, athletic trainers, strength coaches. I mean a lot of the same guys that um, you know, when Frank was playing, um, are still here, which is really kind of unheard of, you know, and obviously everyone knows the run that we've gone on over the last seven years, but, you know, we really haven't had a lot of turnover, which has been pretty special. Especially in NFL. 

Jake: Well, the guy's still six three and Jack, so I think he did the okay playing nine years talking about me or him. Take your shirt off. [00:22:00] 

Frank: These are these, these are these winter months, James. This is where we get, you know, we kind of cozy up for the hunting season. We get that extra layer's, right?

James: Well you see all, all of us are wearing long sleeves, so that should tell you something. No sleeve Monster. Today 

Frank: I wear, I wear a shirt to bed. Right now I can't. My wife. See you like this. Tell 

Jake: your wife. Yeah. Before Jesus. Um, really quick. I, you know, the people wanna know. Yeah. We've heard, you know, how great of a guy Frank is.

Jake: Awesome. I love Frankie. Give me a good zobo like fall on his face story. Give us something that, you know, might make, uh, might make the old boy a little red in the cheeks here. There's gotta be a good frank Zobo, man. 

James: I mean, there are so many that come to mind. Um, the one that I was thinking of, I mean, you know, like there, there's always like those couple stories that you just always like retell and retell and like, they never get old.

You always like giggle about it. And like I mentioned, like we still have. Ryan Reynolds, our, uh, head screen coach is still here. And obviously Frank's got some great stories with Ryan. Um, and, uh, we, we like to, even now we like to tell [00:23:00] Zobo stories in the weight room, just while we're working out. It always like, makes us laugh.

And so the one that just always, always makes me laugh and there's multiple, but there, there was a, uh, in 2017 we played the Cowboys in Dallas and uh, we, for whatever reason we were flying a smaller plane. Maybe it was just, 'cause it was close, it was like a 7 57, so it was like. Three seats an aisle, three seats, and like nor used to, you know, normally we have a lot more spread out, bigger, bigger equipment, bigger plane, and so guys have like seats between 'em all.

We were like crammed in there. So. I'm like walking down the aisle with my bag, you know, like kind of half sideways. And I see Frank sitting there and I'm like, oh, like what a great opportunity to just like mess with Frank. And so I just, I was like one seat behind him. And so he is just sitting there like minding nose, minding nose minding his own business.

And like, I just kinda like, I was like, I'm just gonna like run this bag like over his head as I put it up in the overhead storage. So I just like dragged my heavy bag like over his head, like tried to mess his hair up and like put it in the overhead And, uh. As I put it up there, I just hear this like, ah, and I looked down and he is like holding his neck and he is like, dude, my neck.

So he had jacked his neck [00:24:00] up pretty bad in that game and I didn't know about it. So it was kind of just coincidence. So felt bad about that. Flash forward to the next day. Um, I forget about it. I mean like, I feel like Mondays for us, you just kind of try to like erase, get away, you know, get away from football and so we happen to be down on a property.

Uh, myself, um, uh, Frank and, and, uh, our, uh, our former fullback, Anthony Sherman. And so we were putting some stands up, doing some, doing some recreational stuff. And, um, they, they dropped me off to put a stand up and I'm like, you guys go down and do that and just pick me up on the way back. And so I get done with my stuff.

I can, I can hear the Polaris like driving towards us. I'm like, of course. Just me being me. I'm just like. I'm gonna scare 'em. So I was like, if I hide over here, I can just pop outta the bushes and scare 'em. And so I, I, I, perfect. I'm okay. Frank's gonna be on the right, so I like, jump over there. Anthony's driving and so I hide in these bushes and, and as they get closed, they go, I just wait till they're about right.

I mean, right next to me. And I just jump out. Ah, I did something like, probably did some kind of like, you know, like sneaky, like, you know, like, like something, like something was after you, like some kinda wild animal. And, uh, I'm like, [00:25:00] I just knew. I was like, I got him good. So they keep driving and I hit the brakes.

And so I, I jump out in the, the pathway and I'm laughing real hard and I'm looking at him and like Anthony, our fullback is driving. He just turns around at me. And he is just like, not like that. And I look over at Frank and Frank's got his hand on his neck going, oh, because he had, he had got scared, turned and hurt his neck again.

And so like two days in a row I got him and the look on Anthony's face, I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna walk back to the cabin. And so I just went through the woods. I was like, I'm not, I'm not getting in that Polaris with Frank right now. He's so mad at me, 

Frank: not, not as funny anymore because I actually did just get a scan and I do have some like. Some nerve damage, like disc issues going in that neck. Because I used to strike with my hands in my face that game against Dallas and maybe Lindy can bring a picture of the guy I win against that whole game. It was, what was his name? Tyron Smith or whatever. Do you remember that? 

James: Yeah. Just Google that guy. Yeah, Google. Google. That guy. He looks like the incredible Hulk. 

Frank: I don't, I'll never forget this football game 'cause uh, I was starting against the Cowboys. It was like [00:26:00] Dak Prescott. And they're like, have you seen Tyra? And I don't really follow football. Like, I don't know guys like that. You don't know football anymore?

I don't. Back then, I didn't know like guys like that. We didn't play Dallas often. Like if it was, you know, like an in conference team, I'd know who the left tackle was. And uh, they're like, oh, check this dude out. And I like looked at a picture of him and he is literally like a six, seven version of my like, normally old linemen are like, kind of chunky.

And this dude was just rock solid, humongous, like before the game. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like watching film, he's just like picking dudes up. And then before the game. Like normally when they do like the, or, welcome your Dallas Cowboys like. You get your linebackers are like, they're towards the front.

Your old linemen are like heifers, like cows that coming out late, late, this guy was holding the American flag just leading the team out, sprinting like full sprint. And I'm like, good god, I'm gonna go against this guy all day. So that's why my neck freaking hurt James. 

James: That's the guy that Jack caught up on Sunday. That game 

Frank: probably 'cause our offense was so good. James probably had three reps, you know? Big deal. He is probably fresh as can be here. The travel, [00:27:00] I'm basically like getting healthy together. Let's, I wasn't doing what Frank was doing. 

James: Yeah. So anyways, I, I, I probably should have, uh, thought about that and knew that his neck was hurt anyways. Yeah, so I watched this, uh, when I saw it was probably like 15 minutes go by, we're back at the cabin and Frank just gives me a nod and he's just like, it was pretty funny, but like he's still like holding his neck. He is like pretty funny, but like now it's funny, after he blew off the steam, so it strikes too three 

Frank: right there. It's good strikes two and three. He lucky he didn't get the three. Oof. It was one and two. 

Jake: Well, you  brought up funding James, and I know that's a big part of the off season, so we're not there yet. You guys still have a run to make. What is, uh, you know, this whole thing is dealer out of office, right? So when, when football season shut shuts down, and I know it never fully shuts down for you guys, you're still training, you're still, you know, gotta take care of the body, stuff like that But what is, uh, what is James Winchester doing when football's not, uh, priority? 

Frank: Ho, hold on, let me tie this one into, okay. James is a huge hunter. 

Jake: James', bigger talking about you or him. 

Frank: Because I've seen your four little boys [00:28:00] decked out in gear. I've seen you decked out. Yeah. We both enjoy hunting.

Frank: James. That'd be equal. Yeah. I mean equal. James is, he is. He's more nitty, he's more gritty than me, I would say.

James:  Um, I prob  I probably had a little more like redneck upbringing than Frank. Probably

Frank:  a hundred  percent. That's it. He's more of a redneck upbringing, and the story is entire

James: Frank was more like, Frank was more like private school, like gated community.

Frank: Fair enough, fair enough. All fans, he was like class A football, like in the sticks and we're bored. So like in the, in the NFL, like in the off season or not the, like OTAs, you kind of only like, you go to work like maybe three hours a day, like you. It is not like a very, so it's like a lift, some film, and then your dog lift. You're mostly hanging out with your boys. And for me, my family was back in Michigan while I was in Kansas City my last year. Right. So like I had a lot of time, I was golfing a lot. It was like probably the lowest I ever got. But then in the afternoons, and then James, I don't probably, and also we don't that we were, we and Emily.

James: Yeah. We hadn't even had our first yet. Yeah. So we have time riding around. Yeah. Like 

Frank: we're messing around and we're like, James, like, you guys ever gigged frogs before? I'm like, what the heck is that? [00:29:00] He's like, you know, you, you get a spear and we'll go and we'll gig frogs and then we'll cook 'em up. And I'm like, where the hell are we gonna do that?

Well, we had a good buddy, mark, who was like, and this is like Wolf Creek. This is like a really nice golf course in Kansas City. Yeah. And Mark is a big hunter. And he was like their club champion. And he would actually pull up, like he'd have these like nice cars and then he'd pull up in a side by side like Polaris, like all mudded up.

Frank: And he had like a shot, it was a shotgun in the back of his golf cart. And if there was like, he hated squirrels, he would go squirrel, blow a squirrel away, like on the golf course and this is like a nice place. Anyway, he's like, don't worry guys, like I'm gonna get you into, you know, mark and his like voice.

I'm gonna get you into Wolf Creek. We're gonna, we're gonna go gig frogs at night. So like in all the ponds, I got videos of my phone still, of James. In the mud of these nice golf course, just like, and then one time, like a frog got out of his little, it was like half alive, it was like in his little bag and it like bounced into the water and James, no joke, dove into these ponds and has like frogs by the legs and like a spear in his mouth, not exaggeration, digging these frogs.

[00:30:00] And then we got like 10 frogs. And we had him in an old, uh, post mail, like a box thing. Oh 

James: yeah. Box. Yeah. We got him out

Frank: and uh, they cooked him up and they breaded him up and he ate 'em out of a pond. I couldn't, I couldn't believe the fertilizer. The, 

James: I was like, they don't have, they don't have bullfrogs in Michigan. I mean, like, down, down where we're from, 

Jake: that was like, pond be muddy.  no, dude, I like, I play on the grass on golf courses. 

Frank: Lindy, we're gonna, we're  gonna get away too. I'm gonna, we're gonna put this picture, I'm gonna find the picture of James gigging those frogs and put this in the podcast.

James:  I mean,  you know, I think it's like when, when you grow up doing it, you just don't think of it any differently. You're just like, this is just what we, what we did like during the summer when it was warm and there was nothing to do. Like go, go shine a light and find bull frogs. That's what you're doing. 

Frank: Shining the lights. He'd find their eyes. I had a lot of memories that as a kid.

James: There they are shining lights. And honestly being, being at Wolf Creek Golf Club, like the nicest golf course around, um, I mean, I was like, man, you, you're normally like wading through like cattails and all this stuff.

I'm like, these are like man career greens. We're [00:31:00] walking barefoot across here. Like this is like, this is the way to do it. And so, and also my motivation was up there too, because like Frank was like, I'd never done this. I was like, oh yeah, we're, we're, we're about to go do that. We're gonna take 'em, we're gonna bread 'em up, we're gonna eat 'em, like the whole thing.

So, uh, we, uh, we definitely gave Frank the experience that night. Yeah. 

Jake: So is it, I mean, obviously you're still in Kansas City, is it. Are you more, is it more deer? Is it more what, what are you doing? 

James: It depends on when it is, but you get out, obviously deer hunting is no surprise. Deer hunting in Kansas, Missouri, it's awesome.

Um, but you know, like they also have great waterfowl, Turkey. So like, I think it, depending on when you ask me, if you ask me the fall, I'm like deer. If you ask me in the spring, definitely Turkey. You know, it's just like a seasonal thing. Um, you know, and you just get out when you can. And I actually, my son Jay, he's eight now, so.

I know Frank's got a, got a crew of boys. Um, it's so much fun, like getting them out now, you know, like, yeah, I wanna get out and hunt. But like, it's, it's such a different way of doing it because you like get to kind of [00:32:00] see through their eyes and you get to like, you know, when you take them, like you realize it's such a big deal.

But also like, I, I mean, I could care less. Like, I'm like, I like to get out and hunt. But to take him and see him enjoy it, it's just so much fun. So, I mean, he killed his first deer last year, a stud in Kansas. Can't believe it. I tried to remind him that like I, I killed a dough for my first deer and this kid's got this like 13 point buck, you know, thankful it took some friends that took us and let us hunt their property.

And same thing, killed a big, nice Turkey, 10 inch beard. Like, uh, kids living the life. Um, yeah, he's, uh, we're, we're, uh, we're where we need to be in the Midwest and I couldn't line up more. Perfect. You know, being in Kansas City with, with, uh, you know, the outdoor opportunity that you have for a small town redneck kid like me, and then, 

Frank: and the new type of hunting that James and I are in, and these coyote coyote hunting thermals at night. And you thermals with suppressors. It's probably the coolest way to hunt. 

James: Yeah. It's like,  it's like zero, dark 30 for coyotes. Like, you know, now they have this technology that's available, you know, to civilians where you can actually [00:33:00] have like, you know, you can go buy a thermal scope and go out and like.

See heat signatures like that didn't exist when I was younger. Um, and so it really gives you an advantage and it's a lot of fun. It's, you know, a lot of camaraderie with it. And I know Frank's got into it, uh, with his guys and, and, uh, same thing down here. And we've got a couple teammates that are into it and, uh, it makes for a good time. Now. It's kind of conflicting though because, you know, in deer season, um, I'm kind of like particular about like, protect this area for deer, but then like when deer season ends, it's just like, it's all coyotes. So January or February, it's like, it's on and, uh, have a lot of fun doing it. 

Frank: Well, predator control, especially if you like to raise a deer herd or you like to have turkeys on your property, like coyotes are the biggest nuisance to raising Turkey nests in the spring, or, you know, killing young fawns deer fawns in the spring as well.

So, um, yeah, and you're helping that, so you're bettering your property and, and that's another thing James is into is James, talk about the property that you just purchased, um, you know, maybe a year or so ago, and that the management process that you're putting into it. The, the hinge, I mean, everything you're betting and, and [00:34:00] kind of like, that's more of your, your hobby now is not just the hunting and the killing.

But to manage a property, grow a herd, bring your son, let Jace experience it with you. Talk about that. 

James: Yeah. So I mean, I've always dreamed of owning a property and you know, the older I've gotten, you know, habitat has become, uh, a popular subject. And it's also, you know, if from a conservation standpoint, I mean, it's good in, in twofold.

Like, you know, you, you better the property, um, for the wildlife, but it also creates more opportunity because you know you're doing something good that's gonna like. You know, increase your Turkey population, increase your, your deer herd. And so, which creates opportunity. So like, you know, you find out, you know, those who are, um, conservation minded, like those who use the resource typically end, end up being the best conservationist because you, you love what you're doing and you wanna put more back into it.

So I've always dreamed of like owning a property. So we bought a. A 240 acre place, a buddy of mine. Um, we went in on this place down here, it's about 30 minutes south of where I live in Kansas City. And, uh, it's really been like a, a project from the GetGo. And, and if you're [00:35:00] into the habitat, it's a lot of fun.

So, I mean, we, we had some guys come in and, and um, you know, create bedding areas where they do hinge cutting and uh, some flush cut where they just cut the tree all the way off. And basically the idea is dropping those trees in an area. Um, you're making an area designed, you know, um, you know, you could say adjacent to your food plot where.

You know, you know where the deer are gonna be. And so it's really a cool thing where you take a property that. You know, you walk in in the winter and you, you look down and you look underneath and you look all around you and you can see, you know, daylight. It's like probably not good deer hu you know, deer bedding.

And so, um, these guys were experts at how they drop the trees and everything and I can't do the work myself, but I'm learning. Um, but we had these, um, you know, bedding areas created on our property and obviously had some areas doze for food plots. And it's just been really cool. Like even, you know, we're not even a a, a total year in and like the deer are already using the bedding areas that we designated.

Um, you know, food plots are kind of a work in progress. They're coming along, but just to see the wildlife, um, you know, get to use the, the place and really the property that we bought, um, it [00:36:00] was a goat and a cattle farm before we bought it. So like there was, everything was chewed down, it was just down to dirt and rock.

So now, you know, we've had a growing season on it and we actually have some good native grass that's coming up and it's just really fun. It's just cool to see like what that can do for your property. And so, you know, they old saying like, if you build it, they will come. And I used to always think of that as like, if you just put in food, they're gonna stay, but.

Really the other elements of that is bedding. I mean, bedding, um, arguably is probably as important or more than actually your food plots. And so, uh, still a work in progress, but it's so fun. So yeah, I'm already thinking about, you know, January, February, March, like the projects and things that I wanna do.

And, uh, it has a little cabin on it, so I'm sure Frank will be down to some point to come hang and, and, uh, check it out. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I think if you love habitat and you love, um, doing those sorts of things, like, it's just really interesting. 

Frank: Yeah, and I would say too is like a common misconception about hunters is, is we're killers.

Well, they like killing, you know, you see the pictures of you holding a big old deer. But really, the guys that I respect the most and the guys [00:37:00] that, and what I try to be is like, killing is honestly the worst part of the hunt. Oh yeah, sure. Um, a lot of times it's the strategy that goes into it, whereas like James and myself, you're putting these betting areas in and then you're playing the wind, right.

And you're, you're figuring out ways to get into your property without. Them knowing you're there. And yes, I could go kill and James could go kill a deer probably every time that you go out. I could go kill a deer. It's very easy to go kill a deer. But to, to watch a deer for three or four years grow and then to finally get that mature buck, to get within 30 yards of your tree, stand of where you're gonna be, that is the thrill of the hunt.

That is not, yeah, very reward. And then once you, you make that error and you place it in the right area to, to make that animal suffer the least amount as possible, to die as quick as possible. Um, and then while it's nine, that is now the worst part. Um, and now when you're checking those trail cameras, like, you know, the properties that I hunt on, you may have 10 cell cameras on it and every night you know, you, you go to bed and then you wake up in the morning and you wanna see which deer we're moving around on the property.

And it was so [00:38:00] sad for me. Last year I killed the deer. I've been after for three years, called them, browse huge deer in Michigan. And then the next morning you wake up 'cause you're like, how to autopilot. First thing I do wake up as I look at those trail cameras to see. You know, where was brows last night? Was he on the property or did he walk around? And then it was like, dang, he ain't ever gonna be there again. You know, like it's not there. Yeah. I mean, he may be in my basement now. I'll get to look at him whenever I want, but, uh, yeah. 

James: you definitely, you definitely become emotionally connected, like to the deer that you follow and, you know, um, I think more than deer than, than Turkey and ducks or anything, but, you know, just 'cause you develop history with those deer and, and it, yeah, just like what Frank's saying, like it just ties in, you know, like it makes it that much more fun.

When Frank was in Kansas City, we used to always talk and we're like, man, we have guys that are inviting us to like. Come hunt our place, come sit in our stand, and like there's a time and place for that. Right? But Frank and I used to always talk. We're like, man, it's more fun. Like when we put the work in, like when we've, we know the deer or we go scout the deer and we've done all this work over the summer months getting in, whether it's putting a little food plot in or whatnot, you know, and getting that area set up.

And then maybe you have, you know, 1, 2, 3 years of history with a deer like. When you finally get [00:39:00] those opportunities, man, like that cat, cat and mouse chase, uh, is just so much fun. And I mean, odds are with a bow. I mean, the deer usually has the numbers like on his side, right? Like usually it's harder, like we're, we're kinda out of it.

You try to increase your odds, but um, it's a tough thing to kill a deer with a bow. It just is. Um, and so it know the amount of times you see a deer that's like just out of bow range and like it just, the thrill of that chase. It's just so rewarding. So yeah, I'm right there with you on the, on the, uh, you know, emotional connection with 'em 

Frank: and then talking about it the next morning. I mean, that was almost the funnest thing we had had in Kansas City is every morning we had special teams meetings. Start at, was it eight 15 James? 

James: Eight 15, yeah. 

Frank: Eight 15. And so we would get there at like 7 30, 7 40, whatever. And then we all get our, oh yeah. You know, al almost the bake, you know, whatever. We'd all, and we all had breakfast together. Uh, we shoot this shit about hunting and whatever was going on. Most of the time it was about hunting. 

James: Yeah. It was like the outdoor table. That table was just like made up of, you know, four or five guys that were like, we'd have guys that would walk by and joke with us. They're like, you guys all just talk about hunting? Like this is like [00:40:00] the hunting table. Like it's all y'all wanna talk about. And if they didn't wanna talk about hunting, they just kept walking. 'cause they were like, we know what they're talking about. 

Frank: Yeah. 

Jake: So real quick, James and, and I, I'm not, I'm not a hunter, but I got too many expensive hobbies as is, right?

So I'm like, Frank's, like Frank's, you know, invited me out. I'm like, dude, if I get one more expensive hobby, my wife's gonna leave me. Um, so, so probably not, but you hear a lot of, uh, controversy about Bo versus gun, you know, I think some guys might, like I've heard, correct me if I'm wrong, rifle's kind of cheating in some aspects. It's not true hunting. What's kind of both of you? I'm asking both of you as a, as a take on this. What is truthful? What is right? 

James: Yeah. I, I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll start. I, I, there's nothing wrong with it. I, I think, 'cause I think at the end of the day, I feel like what's most important when you start as a kid, you don't start with a bow, you start with a rifle.

Right? And so, like, you gotta look at it as like, if long as you're getting out, and again, going back to that whole, like usually the person. Um, who, you know, who, who cares the most [00:41:00] typically is like the, the, the better conservationist, the one that's involved. And it's like you get involved, you, you, everybody starts gun hunting, you know?

And so I think, I think what it's about is getting out, enjoying the outdoors, I think first and foremost. So whether you're doing that with a gun or bow, that's your thing. But I think a lot of us have like, kind of progressed from bo, from, you know, rifle to bow. So I always say like, bow is my thing. I love bow.

It's just so much more rewarding. It's harder. But I, I'm not like, opposed to, you know, there's a time and a place where you bring the rifle out and you hunt. You know, usually that's like late season. Frank will tell you, like, when you're like frustrated and you're like, man, like I, this deer is a ghost. He will not give me a, a chance.

He's like, he needs to go this year. Maybe he's the buck on your property, you know, on your farm. That's like, man, this thing, this guy's a bully. He's five, six years old. Like he needs to go and it's like, okay, I need to put a little more, um, you know, odds in my basket and like go after him with a rival. So there, there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, that, that's how I see it. 

Frank: Yeah. I grew up, you know, playing for the packers is kind of where I started to hunt. So I got into bow hunting, rough the bat, so I was more of a bow hunter than anything. But [00:42:00] then I'll talk to people in Michigan and they're like, and I kind of looked, not that I looked down on rifle hunters or anything like that.

But there's like a certain tradition to opening day in Michigan, November 15th. Every year. It's like 4th of July. It, it is up here. And like, and it's like, and that morning, as soon as that sun comes up, you just, you hear 'em going up, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And there's something to it that's been going on for hundreds, a hundred years, whatever it is, the, you know, opening day.

Um, so there's a certain tradition of guys, the camaraderie of getting, you know, men, women, doesn't matter. There's a lot of people that hung nowadays, but. Getting together and doing deer camp. Um, so I, I understand, and like you said, it's about getting out in the woods and, and supporting conservation by buying a deer tag, uh, buying a hunting license and it supports Right, the tradition of hunting.

James: Right. So, you know, growing up in Oklahoma, Southeast from Oklahoma, they would actually let out school for opening day of deer season. It was that big of a deal in my area, unfortunately. Maybe we didn't take it as seriously, like seriously, I guess we never actually got to let outta school. But I had some friends that grew up in southeastern Oklahoma and they were like, oh yeah, [00:43:00] we used to let out for school early, like for opening weekend.

I was like, dude, should have, should have been born and raised down there. That sounds pretty cool. That's awesome. 

Frank: 100%. 

Jake: Yeah, that's right. All right, James, last kind of question as we wrap this up, and again, appreciate your time, but again, being dealer out of office, we talked about hunting, we've talked about football. What else are you doing outside? I know you got the kids. Is that most of your time? Is there anything else that you're like. Very passionate about what's, what else kind of, you know, drives you a little bit? 

James: Uh, I mean, spending time with the kids, obviously as a father, like, you know what, whatever that is outside my, I got my son a, uh, a little RC airplane, so we've been like flying that thing around.

So, uh, he's into duck hunting, so he's always like, dad, when are we going duck hunting next? Um, surprisingly, like I've never been a, uh, Frank, you'll like this. You know, we always talked about, you know, blinking squirrels and stuff like that. I, I took my son squirrel hunting. About a month ago, and he was hooked.

He was like, dad, we gotta do that again. And so it's funny how the, the, the, the stuff that you were like, eh, like I'm not, I don't have any interest in that. All of a sudden, you know, you have boys and they're like, I just wanna get out and [00:44:00] walk around with a 22 and shoot squirrels like. You know, but I will say we did, I, I kind of have like the mer spin on it.

We, we made sure we ski that thing out and uh, we cooked it for him that night, so he ate it. I'm like, we're not just gonna be shooting squirrels and shoot squirrels, like, we're actually gonna hunt and, and you're gonna eat what you kill. So, um, yeah, other than that man, it's just, uh, this time of year trying to stay warm.

So, you know, obviously still playing, still have a few, few, uh, weeks left in the season. But, um, any moment, uh, an opportunity, we have to get outside. We're outdoors. Is he a football player or what's he, uh, what's his, he's gotten into it. He has, he played, uh, he's played two years, three years of flag football, and next year will be opportunity for tackles.

So I'll be calling Frank to, uh, ask him how his boys made that transition. 

Frank: Yeah, I got some plays for you. I've been perfecting, 

Jake: I’ve walked into Frank's office, I've seen the Xs and Os on a, on a sticky note, and it's, it's still going in that brain of his, a lot of drawn up plays. 

James: Hey, you know, as a specialist, you know, playing in this league, obviously we're kind of in our own world.

Like we go over on field three and just snap and kick and punt like all day long. So, you know, it's been quite a few years that I've been kind of [00:45:00] removed from some of the Xs and Thoses on offense defense. But I have a lot of guys, including Frank, that I'll be calling, uh, when I'm done. 'cause I'm like, Hey, uh.

You're obviously an expert on that defense thing, like, I need you to gimme the rundown. So, uh, spent, spent a little too many years in the special teams meeting, but if, if you need a special needs question, I'm there for you. But, uh, offensive defense, I think I'll be making some calls.

Frank:  I, I gotta blow up his spot a little bit about training camp and the life.I think this is a good one for the life of training camp. Going to, we would go to St. Joe, Missouri as a Kansas City chief. Um. Training camp practice would start at like eight 15. You'd have to get to the state and probably seven 15, you had like a three hour practice in the heat. You know, luckily Coach Re would practice us in the mornings, which are good.

You don't have practice, and then you'd have meetings from like one 30 to four 30. Then you'd have dinner and then you'd have to report back at like six 30 to nine o'clock, and it was every day for three weeks. And it was, it was a very stressful time. You know, you're in a line, a [00:46:00] linebacker room that has maybe 17 guys in it and they're gonna keep eight. So it's very competitive every day you're being evaluated in front of your peers on how well you performed, how well you did this drill, how, where your hands are placed, why did you get beat here? Why did you know this, this, and that. Critiquing, it's very stressful.

The specialist, you know, they go into training camp and don't, you know, they've already gotten through the tough parts. They've made, they, they're at the. Top 32 of what they do. So give 'em credit there. But they would know that there's just one punter training camp. There's one long snapper and one kicker.

They're not competing against anybody. Some training camps may be different, but basically when I was going, I was like a grown man on the verge of tears. And if anybody out in the world says, I can't wait to get to training camp, I can't wait to, they're full crap. Training camp is a very stressful time.

You just got done with like a three week break. And like PTSD, like you hear like short training camp and you're like, you're like, oh my gosh. Like it's a, it's, it's a just a haze. It's like a Vietnamese death march, just every day of the same, just boom, boom, boom. [00:47:00] Anyway, so the longest time of the, they can't wait to go because like our punter, Dustin qui, he had like five kids at home and I didn't really relate to it as much when I was playing 'cause I didn't have all those kids.

But he'd literally be like, all right, family, I'll see you later. And he's like, I would get in my truck. I'd put the sunroof back and he'd be like, and just start cheering because he was gonna go and he was basically gonna go hang out with his friends for the next three weeks. Yeah. Have no parallel responsibilities.

Yeah. And, and basically he would go and kick for maybe 15 minute, you know, they'd kick do things, maybe half a practice, do one live, uh, thing where they'd do field go kick. And then they were pretty much done the rest of the day while we were in like all these meetings. And then we would get back and there'd be like frogs in our toilet, like big bowl frogs in our toilet.

And we're like, who? There's only three guys who have enough time. It's a specialist. And they would, they would pull pranks on the, like Ryan, who was like our new, he's now our head strength coach in Kansas City, but he was like new, he would have to do bed checks at night 'cause everyone had to be in the rooms at 11 o'clock at night.

And these [00:48:00] dudes would pulled different pranks on Ryan of like, they'd be in like thong bathing suits with like cigarettes in their mouths and beer cans and like all in the same room.

James:  We, we always kept it interesting at bed check, bed check and like mess with Ryan 

Frank: Dustin's got some I couldn't even talk about on the air, the things he would do. Um, that's right. But yeah, they had just the life at training camp, so I have to expose them a little bit. Yeah. They'd be, all right, we're gonna go, where are we gonna go look for deer tonight? And they would just go drive around and go locate deer. And it was like. Yeah, definitely. 

James: We, we always practiced in the morning, so like, you know, that's like, you know, go out, get your work in, in the morning and then, you know, had a mid-afternoon lift every other day.

Um, and these guys have like meetings upon meetings on pe I mean, starting the day back then before the, the, the newer CBA came in, I mean, we were 8:00 AM 8 0 5 on the field start, and it was what a nine meetings are like 9, 9 15. Yeah. And so, like these guys were literally in practice or meetings or walkthrough or workout from 8:00 AM you know, and obviously used to eat breakfast, you're up six 30 whatnot.

Um, all the way until, you know, night they're [00:49:00] leaving meetings, going back, grab a snack, and they're straight to bed. And it's like the next thing, the next morning. You know, it's, it's four days in a row. It's just like a grueling, physically and mentally, and that's kind of the base of your season, you know, and, and, uh, for, for a specialist, you know, as long as you're doing your job and, and you're doing what you need to do every day, you're like, man, I got a lot of free time.

And like, when I came to the league, Dustin Colt was there, and he is the, the practical joker of all, of all practical jokers. I mean, he, that man has. He thinks of stuff that you're like, I don't even know how your mind is wired that way. Where you would think about pranking this guy that way, or think about bringing this or that.

And so that was kind of the ringleader, like I kind of had like, just followed him and, uh, man, he, he always kept people laughing, you know, and, and Dustin to give him props. He used to always say like, it's not just about me joking around. He's like, you know, this is a super stressful time for these guys.

Like, he's like, I love giving these guys something to laugh about. Like, yeah, something to talk about. I mean, so much so that like the next day. Coach Reed always got a kick about like, you know, what happened to bed? Check. He would always ask Ryan and, and, uh, coach Rubes at the time. And, uh, so like, [00:50:00] you know, those stories, I feel like it's good for the morale, good for the team.

Frank:  I'll never forget those kinda stories. Like I still think of 'em all the time. I still remember the video you sent to me. I was already done. Remember the, the first year I was done with football and I came back and Coach Reed let me, he's like, yeah, come back. And he just let me. I was in the cold tubs. I had like a locker.

I was in the weight room still waiting. Hey, tell him, tell him how that wasn't even on a team anymore. And Coach Reed, like I was just part of the team again. Yeah. Coffees with Tobe. 

James: Tell him how that day ended when you left. 

Frank: Oh yeah. Then I leave and days ended, I'm done. I had a rental truck and uh, I park it like in the parking lot.

Everything I get back. They put, well, I don't know who did it. There's a bunch of sand 'cause they would sand the fields and things. Yeah. They took one of the, the like a spreader things, not a spreader, like one of the small Bobcats, 

Jake: Hilo. Yeah. 

Frank: And loaded the back of my truck with. I couldn't like throw all the sand on the back of my truck.

James:  He was like, it had to be like 2000 pounds of pounds. Sand, like in his rental truck. I mean, the truck was like [00:51:00] this. He like tells everybody goodbye. Hey, it's so good to see you guys man. Thanks for a good day and like walks out to his truck. And his truck's filled out with sand. He is like, I gotta return, I gotta take this back to the airport. 

Frank: What am I gonna do? Like three hours? So what am I do here? 

James: He was, he was  so stressed out. So he is like, guys, you gotta, because obviously you knew it was us. So he is like, you know, we're denying it. But he is like, we're like, all right, well, you know, we, we felt guilty down, down deep, but we're like, you know, we're not admitting it, but we're, hey mean we will help you.

Like we no shovels nothing. We're like, we're like getting like sticks and like trying to dust like 2000 pounds outta the back of his truck. He's all stressed, he's sweating. Like it's not the way he thought his day was gonna, and it was like. Man, you come back to training camp, you're gonna get got, 

Frank: I still love the one too, where you guys had that. You guys got a a, a snake in like a crouching position. It was like a rattlesnake in Oh yeah. In Taylor City you have, like in Missouri, you have snakes like that. And this thing was in like a striking position about to go and they set up a garbage can. So like when you come outta the locker room. There was like a garbage can on the sidewalk, and then to the right of that was the cold tub.

So everyone's in the cold tub's like sitting. Well, James found this snake in like a taxidermied snake, put it behind the garbage can. It had a [00:52:00] fishing line and they're all sitting there in the the cold tub. And as soon as like one of the guys would come in, they would pull that snake out from behind the. Garbage can, and then watch what these dudes do when there's a snake at your feet. 

James: I mean, I mean, thankfully we didn't give anybody a heart attack. You know? You're like, ah, these guys are young. They can take it. But we got some great reactions 

Jake: outta like, one of your starters, and then you're in trouble, eh?

Frank: Yeah. They weren't doing that to Pat or Tyre killed was say. 

James: No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. We saw, we saw Pat or Tyreek or Kelsey walk out the door was like, nah, nah, just let them walk. Good. 

Jake: That's obviously a testament to, to those teams being successful, right? Yeah. Locker room and, and the, and the culture that, uh, that was there. So. 

Frank: Yep. 

Jake: Right. I, I love, I love the, I love the background stories of what it's like in a real locker room. It's not always grinding, grinding, grinding, and there's some fun to it. 

Frank: A hundred percent. 

Jake: So, yeah. James, um, I can't thank you enough for jumping on, man. This has been, this has been awesome. Um, best of luck the rest of the year. You know, we, we, we wish you guys all the luck, obviously, this office. Uh, appreciate some, this office has some Kansas City, uh, stuff flying around here just [00:53:00] with Frank's, uh. Frat room of an office I'm looking at over here, but a lot of memorabilia with you guys. And again, thank you for coming on and, uh, giving much your time today.

James: Absolutely, man.  Hey, it was fun. Let's do it again. Stay healthy, dude. Will do. Alright fellas. See buddy. See you.

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