Fitness essentials, the truth about fasting, and habits to stay healthy w Brett Billings, F-NP

​​On this week’s Dealer OOO, hosts Jake and Frank sit down with Brett Billings—a family nurse practitioner and clinic owner in Medford—for a practical, no-shortcuts conversation about getting (and staying) in shape as a busy adult.

Most of us want to feel like we did in our 20s, but careers, kids, and the “always on” culture make it easy to fall into the same loop—less sleep, more stress, inconsistent workouts, and grab-and-go food. Brett’s message: you don’t need perfection, but you do need non-negotiables.

The real “fitness hack” is scheduling (and sleep)

Brett trains five to six days per week, aiming for about 45 minutes a day, with resistance training three to four times weekly. Cardio comes in seasons—sometimes minimal, sometimes ramped up for an event.

His big constraint (and his big solution): if he doesn’t train early, it won’t happen. With three young kids and two practices, the only reliable time is before the day starts. That means early wakeups. But he’s quick to point out that waking up early only works if you commit to bedtime.

This matters because sleep isn’t just “rest.” It’s recovery, hormones, mood, appetite regulation, and workout performance all rolled together. 

Brett also recommends using sleep tracking, not as a vanity metric, but as feedback: caffeine timing, late meals, alcohol, and screen habits show up fast when you look at your sleep trends over time.

Priorities: Less is more

One of the most grounded parts of the episode is Brett’s pushback against the cultural obsession with “more.” More work. More commitments. More side quests. He encourages narrowing priorities to a handful you won’t compromise:

• Time with your family
  
• Time with your spouse/partner
  
• Movement/exercise
  
• Sleep
  

Then make decisions backward from those priorities—especially when it comes to piling on activities, leagues, and obligations. It’s not anti-ambition. It’s pro-longevity (and pro-sanity).

Nutrition: Awareness beats extremes

When the conversation shifts to nutrition, Brett keeps it pragmatic:

• Different people tolerate carbs differently (genetics and phenotype matter)
  
• You don’t need to count calories forever—but you should track long enough to learn what you’re actually eating
  
• Macros matter, especially protein
  

His personal approach is a routine of small, high-protein meals every 3–4 hours, with real-life flexibility (protein shakes/bars when needed), and a strong preference for whole foods when possible.

He also admits what every parent learns the hard way: kids can wreck your nutrition plan. Nuggets and fries are undefeated. 

Fasting: What’s useful vs. what’s hype

Brett frames fasting in a way that de-mystifies it: your body naturally alternates between feeding and fasting, and the goal is to be intentional about the fasting side—not just “I happened to sleep.”

He’s generally supportive of intermittent fasting / time-restricted eating, often described as an 8–10 hour feeding window, and he emphasizes avoiding food close to bedtime because late meals can disrupt sleep quality.

On longer fasts (24+ hours), Brett is cautious. His take: most people can get the majority of benefits without going extreme, and longer fasts are often more useful as a mental discipline challenge than a required health strategy. If someone does go longer, he warns they need a plan for hydration, electrolytes, and blood pressure symptoms.

Testosterone, TRT, and what guys are actually coming in for

In Brett’s health clinic, the most common concerns he sees in men roughly 30–60 are:

• fatigue and low energy
  
• low libido
  
• longer recovery after workouts
  
• difficulty maintaining muscle/strength
  

He notes that “low T” isn’t just a number—it’s symptoms plus labs, and the conversation should include lifestyle first. His biggest bang-for-buck recommendations for naturally supporting testosterone:

1. Consistent resistance training, especially compound lifts
   
2. High-quality sleep
   

Peptides and supplements: helpful, but not magic

When the episode turns to peptides, Brett’s stance is clear: be careful, be specific, and don’t treat it like an easy button.

He calls out a few he sees as more established for injury recovery support (like BPC-157 and TB-500) and discusses growth-hormone–related peptides (e.g., tesamorelin) as tools that can help when the fundamentals are already dialed in. He also emphasizes cycling and avoiding indefinite, years-long use due to limited long-term safety data.

The one takeaway Brett wants you to keep

If Brett had to give just one piece of advice, it wasn’t a supplement or a protocol:

Move outside.

Get sunlight. Get fresh air. Move your body in the real world—walks, hikes, yard work, anything. The mental benefits stack with the physical ones, and it helps break the screen-driven routine that keeps people wired at night and inconsistent in the morning.

What is up everybody? Welcome back to dealer out of office. As always, I'm your host Jacob Urkel alongside my good buddy, Frank Zombo. we had a hell of a guest in Aledonna last week and I think because we could have made that another two or three hours because of how invested we were in our own health. we want to keep that, keep that train rolling. So I want, I think it's that for everyone right now. It's like,

how do we get in the best shape possible for those summer months? Especially some of the guys up here in Michigan. It's already been quitting time or quit. What's the quitting week? Two weeks after. So we were already kind of past that. But for the people that are still holding on strong and want a little bit of little, you know, maybe like extra push or a little more knowledge who are getting into the fitness game. We have an incredible guest on. We saw him with the shirt off. That's, that was the sign point we saw, but we're like, what is he doing? The dude's yoked. What is he doing? So we can get to that point and give us, give us his.

Yeah, absolutely right. So with that said, welcome to dealer out of office, Brett Billings. What's going on, buddy?

Brett (01:02.85): Hey guys, I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to chat about, well, whatever you want to talk about, but especially in scope.

OOO (01:09.142): What's working for you is what we're going to get off the rails a little bit, but we're going to try and keep it on for right now. So before we dive deep into just, you know, again, why you're yoked and what we can all do to get there, give us a little background where you're at, what you do, you know, at least for the professional aspect. And then of course, we'll dive into the other stuff.

Brett (01:29.964): Yeah, sure. So I'm a family nurse practitioner. I've been in practice now for about six, on seven years, I think. And then about about two years ago, I opened my own practice. I'm here in Southern Oregon in Medford.

And I have two different practices I run. One is a family practice, so I still see men, women, children of all ages. And then I have a men's health clinic. And that's where, I mean, it's really my goal of that is to just help each patient optimize their health and really focus on, you know, men 30 to 60 and trying to get everything optimized as well as we can.

OOO (02:10.644): Well, that perfect. That's what we're what we want because we're in that in that range. So I think one of my first questions is like everyone's busy, right? A lot of the people that listen to this podcast, they're they're, you know, GMs, they're they're high up in the dealership life and the automotive life, or just, you know, busy in general. So you got three kids, you have two practices. What's like the non-negotiable for you in terms of fitness? Like is it three times a week, five times a week, or just, hey, you got to get your steps in. What is it that you find that is just like consistent in all of that?

Brett (02:48.364): Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. I really try to prioritize some kind of exercise, like five to six days a week. And generally I'll do like some, some resistance training three to four times a week that I try to like have consistent throughout my life, regardless of time. And then I'll, I'll have various types of like longer distance endurance training or cardio type stuff that I'll do. And that kind of ebbs and flows a little bit more depending on how much time I have in my schedule. there are seasons where I mainly do like one or two times a week for 45 minutes or times when I have more availability and I'll train for some event or do something where I can really spend more time on it. But I really try to have, I would say 45 minutes devoted to exercise every day. five to six days a week that I pin in there that is time that can't be taken over by something else.

OOO (03:50.95): So I love it. I think everyone knows too, it's like you got to work out to get to get big. Someone as busy as you. How old are you again, Brett?

Brett (04:00.972): Right now I'm 35. Yeah. My kids are five, five and three.

OOO (04:02.39): 35 kids, three kids.

Okay. And you got two businesses, two clinics. me, I have kids 11, nine, eight, five, all boys, all in sports, got a job, you know, eight to five. Then I got kids sports afterwards. Then all of a you like to golf on the weekend, you know, golf on the weekdays too. You got golf league, you got dart league, you got whatever, balancing it all. When do you find the time to fit it in and where.

when do you find the best time to get that 45 minutes to an hour workout?

Brett (04:41.228): Yeah, for me, it only works if I do it early in the morning. I inevitably, there's more things that need to be done as the day progresses. And if I wait till like midday or afternoon or in the evening, even it just, it never happens. And I'm also the kind of person that after like seven or 8 p.m., I'm toast man. I do not have the energy to like go do a workout. So usually I am up around four every day and I'll try to do my workout and get all of that done by like five, sometimes a little later. But that time is almost guaranteed to be available because no one else is awake.

OOO (05:19.53): Yeah, yeah, so again two boys for me two and a half and six months so

I'm a 430 in the morning kind of guy. And it took me, you know, the better part of a month to like just, you know, telling yourself you're not, you know, don't be a lazy, you know, piece of, you know what to get out of the door, right? What's kind of your mentality other than like, Hey, this is a non-negotiable for people that are trying to get into it. Is it, know, don't put all your eggs in one basket too soon because you're going to burned out. see that a lot. Everyone goes, you know, full bore.

Brett (05:28.664): Yeah.

Brett (05:39.694): Yeah.

OOO (05:52.502): 4am for a week and then it's like, no, my body just can't catch up. Right. So for someone that's, I I'm very busy, you know, seven to seven and they only have that morning time. What's a little, uh, a little hack or a little trick that you've used, you know, to, kind of get into that routine or rhythm, or is it just that like, just get out of bed and start moving.

Brett (06:14.926): I mean, I think it's probably both. there has to be some level of commitment because there's a lot of mornings when I would much rather sleep or, or, you know, not work out. Um, but I do think that one thing that's really helpful is, uh, committing to a bedtime, you know, you have to like, you decide to go to sleep and within a reasonable hour. So I don't really ever stay up past 10 o'clock. mean, there's exceptions for, I don't know, some celebration or event, but on your day-to-day routine, you really have to decide, like, do you have to commit a little bit to sleeping a little earlier if your time, you know, if you need to wake up at 4.30 or five just to get going, then you probably need to go to bed by, you know, nine or 10 to still get decent sleep and feel okay to exercise. So I think committing to a good sleep pattern is critical.

it just takes time to develop that habit. Your brain will adjust. You'll kind of get used to it, but you just have to set your wake up time and make it that morning or make it that time every morning over and over and over. And eventually your body kind of adapts to it and it feels a little bit more normal. It's still going to be hard at times, but I think if you can get a good routine of bedtime and wake time, it helps a lot.

OOO (07:24.051): Was it 60 days to become a routine or something like that? Well, I think too is like the Glenn Lundy, don't hit the snooze button, like set that snooze and see how long I've actually, you know, like the Michael Jordan, you quit once it becomes a habit. And it's like, all right, don't quit on that snooze. cause like at the end of last year, I was hitting that snooze three times, four times, of a that five work, wait a morning wake up, turn into a five 45.

So far this year I've been good. I don't want to be the first to stop. And then, you know, once you started, cause then it's easier to quit, you know, to hit the snooze a second time. But then I find out too, I have a similar schedule. try to get in bed, you know, you try to get in bed by 10 o'clock and then I got the kids and then they're up at nine, nine 30. And, uh, and I try to get that at nine, but then, know, you never, you never know when the old lady might, you know, is it my diet? You never know. And then

And then you understand a little longer and then that turns into a five, you know, you get five hours of sleep, six hours of sleep. So it's, it's tough balancing as a 35 to 40 year old guy trying to do it all and get those early morning workups. get it. You know, there's a lot of excuses that creep in and. it's a routine too, right? Like if you're doom scrolling, if you're watching TV, like I think that's a big part of it too, is getting in a routine, like, read a book, like do, you know, do something to turn your brain off a little bit.

Brett (08:24.387): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

OOO (08:40.79): you know, to, to just scroll and scroll and scroll and then try and go to bed. You're just wired and it's never going to work out for you. having a, to get that. But my point though, too, not just like that kind of time, but like time with your sniffing, because when you're at work all day and then you're driving the kids to sports and then your kids are in bed by nine o'clock. And then it's like, then I want to be in bed by nine o'clock. It's like, Jessica, I didn't see what we, know, it's like, so you got to find that, perfect balance of everything. And then when do you find time to go, uh, you know, hit tee times at night or.

Brett (08:46.22): Yeah.

OOO (09:10.292): Yeah, Dart League, you know, it's a lot to balance, no question.

Brett (09:14.584): Yeah, I think it's good too to like  figure out your top priorities in life, like your family, time with your wife, exercise, whatever they are, and kind of narrow it down to, I don't know, a handful of things that you're saying, you decide, like, I won't compromise on these no matter what, and I will decide whether or not I'm gonna commit to doing some activity or even let my kids commit to something based on whether or not I can maintain those things. Like, for me, it's critical that I get to be home by four or five every day because I wanna spend time with my kids and I don't wanna get caught in this rut where I start working more and more and more and then I never see my kids and I also want to have time with my wife and I want to have time to exercise. So there are certain things we say no to. I think there's a, especially in our culture, there's a lot of push to just do more and more and more, especially for men. And there's probably some value in doing less sometimes if it allows you to prioritize what really matters in your life.

OOO (10:13.269): So while staying on kind of the sleep topic, in your professional experience. I know some guys are very different. Frank brought up Flynn Lundy, who's a consistent like four hours of sleep guy. But he's, you know, as he's deep into his realm, he's even into in a good sleep. So how much sleep is truly needed for recovery? You know, both physically mentally in your in your opinion, should everyone be getting

Brett (10:37.26): Yeah, you know the typical number that's thrown around, especially in the like medical books and stuff is like eight hours. It's kind of the magic. Usually between the six to eight hour window of time in bed is like sufficient to get enough sleep, but it totally depends on your quality of sleep.

So you can be in bed for 10 hours and still have really poor sleep because you didn't get enough of those deep and rim cycles. And you can be in bed for, in theory, you could be in bed for four or five hours and get everything you needed if your brain was able to just like basically stay in deep and rim sleep. So there are some, just fortunate few who can get along with four to five hours because they...

there's a component of that that's just out of your control. Most of us don't have that ability. And so you should probably expect that you're gonna need to be in bed for seven hours on the short side to actually get sufficient quality sleep.

But there's a lot of good sleep tracking technology now that you can get on like a Garmin watch or those, know, the whoop band or the ORA rings. And it's super helpful to actually start tracking and look at like, okay, what are my normal habits? And then you can see the way things like caffeine late in the day affect you or a meal late at night, or there's so many things that can influence your sleep a little bit. And it's really helpful to be able to look back and say, yeah, I should probably avoid that because that really disrupted me.

OOO (11:40.918): True. Brett for the folks coming into your clinic, your men's health clinic. So last week we talked to Allie, she was more, she looked at our blood work because she has a great sense of both sexes, but it sure was a lot of female. Her clinic was more female oriented. Yours being more male oriented. Our listeners are a lot in that like 35, you know, 30 to 55 range, 60 range, let's say. What are most gentlemen in that age coming in to see you about right now?

Brett (12:35.342): A lot of the same stuff we're talking about, just sort of a general feeling of fatigue or lack of energy, low libido. They feel like they're starting to notice that they don't feel like they did when they were in their 20s. And it's usually kind of general type symptoms, but longer recovery times from exercise, like, man, I'm sore now for four or five days or, you know, a difficulty building muscle or maintaining strength, just kind of seeing some of what would be normal for age, but like at a significant pace. And I think the most common would just be like, I just feel tired or physically like I don't have energy.

OOO (13:17.316): Sure. So as we kind of get into it, we're kind of wrapping up sleep, but we're going to talk obviously nutrition, we're going to talk supplementation, we're going to talk exercise. Where do you rank those in terms of like most important to like least important or are we tying like you got sleep, nutrition, exercise, supplementation. I mean, some people I've heard argue sleep's number one. I've heard some people argue nutrition's number one, right? So in your opinion, what should people, our listeners be prioritizing and kind of chip away at?

Brett (13:34.648): Yeah. Yeah, I would be hard to pick probably the number one because you're, you're all essential. I would say something that I feel like has been a recent development or discovery for me is, is sleep being the most important for me. And I think it's probably true for you guys, but any

OOO (13:54.688): They're all important. I understand. Yeah.

Brett (14:10.348): like ambitious young male is usually gonna try to just push, push, push. And I think in our time growing up, the general mantra was like, I'll sleep when I'm dead and I just need to push. And so.

As I've gotten older, I've realized that does not work. You're gonna die way faster if you're not sleeping. And you just can't function. I mean, you can get away with a lot of bad habits when you're in your teens and 20s, but as you get older, those things catch up to you. I really have put a priority on sleep in the last probably two years, and that's made a big impact for me.

Brett (14:47.374): But I think exercise is equally as critical. And I like to sometimes tell my patients the, broaden the term from exercise to like movement. It's not just about like going to the gym and lifting weights, which is I think what most people think about when they think exercise. It's really about just a lifestyle where you're physically active, where you're out hiking, you're working in your yard, you do some weight lifting, you do some running, but you can do so many things. I think just making an active lifestyle is

OOO (15:00.214): Get some steps in.

Brett (15:17.368): really critical. And then those are top two for sure. Nutrition is critical, but I would put exercise and sleep at the top.

OOO (15:24.419): It's funny how they go, Brett, like hand in hand because I did start tracking my sleep over the last 18 months, I would say. And I would say I played nine years in the NFL.

I didn't drink a whole lot. lot of that time was spent training. Now that I'm out of the NFL, I thought maybe I would start drinking alcohol more, you know, like now I'm just living for me now. I'm not living to go perform on Sundays. But now when I see the effects alcohol has on my sleep where everyone maybe thought like, I'll go crush a bourbon before bed and I sleep like a rock or have a glass of wine. I sleep like a rock. If I did that now I see, even though maybe I can sleep eight hours, but my sleep score is like through the floor, you know, it's

Brett (15:40.462): Mm-hmm.

OOO (16:06.422): It's terrible. So my body is obviously not reacting well to alcohol. I've come to find that out and I just now maybe it's mental, maybe whatsoever. I don't handle alcohol very well. So I probably drink less alcohol now than I did even in my senior year of high school, just because I know it's bad for me. Now every once in a while, you know, mess around with the occasional like gummy or whatever, just to kind of have some type of something, you know, but even that, um, I mean, even last night I took a, I took a gummy and I didn't sleep great. My sleep score wasn't great. Whereas like the last couple of days before that,

Brett (16:19.298): Yeah.

OOO (16:35.466): I didn't do anything and had great sleep score. So yeah. You gotta have some give and take. Yeah. There's give and take. Yeah. Some balance. you brought up a funny point and I, I kind of glad you did because we see in our, you know, in the industry, like everyone, know, 4 a.m. wake up, you know, splitting everything, you know, you got to, you know, four o'clock you, you, you sleep at noon and you got to grind, grind, grind, where it's just like, yeah, but you know, what does that gonna do for you in the, in the long

Brett (16:39.34): Yeah.

OOO (17:04.266): You know, I think there's been too much of a, I want to call it pride thing. I don't know what it is, an ego thing of, know, trying to work hard in the next guy, where it's like, if you prioritize your health, you're going to be in it for the long run. You're going to be able to, you know, what's what do always tell me? It's not the hours you, not, it's not how many hours you put in. It's what you put into your hour. So that's why I'm only here a couple hours a day, Brett. It's because of what I put in my hours. Frank doesn't know what the office looks like after three 30. No. Yeah. I did say really in the thing I was eight to five, but it's eight to three 30.

Brett (17:21.986): Yeah.

OOO (17:33.032): Switching gears, something that Frank and I are both big on is also nutrition. know, we talk about fasting and autophagy. talk about whole foods and that's kind of where like I got two kids and that's a big thing in my house is like it's whole foods, right? If you can pronounce it, you can eat it, right? Looking at ingredients, knowing, hey, you know, an apple is, you know, an apple, right? You know, vegetables, meats.

you know, sourcing correctly from, you know, places, you know, the, food is, um, source from, right? Like I bought a half a cow, right? I know exactly where that cow was from. I know exactly what they put into it. So stuff like that. Um, for people that are constantly moving, I mean, you, you said nutrition's equally as important as up there. What are you doing? What's kind of your, what's for you and what diet every two hours kind of guy, are you doing intermittent fasting? You know, what, what do you find to be, um, productive?

Brett (18:30.242): Yeah, well, I will say that it does depend on the person. There are different phenotypes your body will process, like carbohydrates, for example, differently. Some people metabolize those so quickly and they are able to tolerate a lot of carbs and look great and have low body fat. Some people, their body just soaks those up and turns them into fat so fast. So there is some variation amongst just sort of your genetics, but...

OOO (18:53.446): Okay. Okay.

Brett (18:58.03): I think generally speaking, the key things are like having some awareness of your macro nutrient intake is just so helpful. You don't have to count calories, but it's a good idea to have a general idea of like, how many calories do I even eat in a day? Because I think most people will...

basically have the assumption that their diet's pretty good. They're just thinking back and they're comparing themselves to a typical American which has a terrible diet. it's really helpful to like track some of those things for a while. Like what do I normally eat and what does that translate to? How many grams of protein am I getting? Fat, how many calories? I do eat typically every three to four hours. So I have a...

of routines since I've been on since in high school and just developed that habit when I was an athlete playing sports all the time, which is a pretty common one. You're just hungry all the time. So you just eat like anytime you get a chance. But I've been able to kind of maintain that. And it's just, works for me. So I have like small high protein meals every probably, I don't know, four hours or so.

Brett (20:02.606): And that varies. Sometimes I do just like drink a protein shake or eat a protein bar, but I really do try to eat whole foods, know, actual meat, vegetables, those sorts of things. Having kids has dramatically thrown just a wrench in the works for me, and that can be a huge challenge. Yeah, I eat the worst I've ever eaten in my life after having kids, and that's a challenge to like overcome.

OOO (20:18.044): yeah, chicken nugget, boom. French fry, boom. Like.

Brett (20:29.934): But yeah, I try to stick to, I mean, we can get into details if you want, but the actual grams and percentages, and we can go down the trail of fasting too, but generally speaking, just have an awareness of your macronutrients and kind of monitoring that.

OOO (20:46.575): Yeah, I mean, I, I would like to get into it because I think nutrition is something that you can nutrition in my opinion is something that you can have the most control over, right? You know what you're putting in your body, you can, you know, you can say yes, you can say no. You know, time sleep, like kids think exercise, that's gonna be a problem. of these are stuff that we have control over. And if it was easy, everyone would be looking like Brett, right?

OOO (21:14.086): It takes discipline. then when, and then Ali got to a point when you've put in the work and it still isn't working for you. Now you can get into some supplementation to help aid that or speed that up. Right. Once you've proven that, Hey, I've tried everything. It's just not working for me. And you brought up a good point about like phenotypes. And hopefully I said that right is again, not to keep dropping the NFL card. I played in locker rooms with folks from all over the country, all different types, walks of life, different nationalities, backgrounds.

There's a true thing about some people process carbohydrates. Like it could be Kool-Aid or a bag of Skittles differently than I break down a bag of Skittles and almost like it was their broken shake. watched and again, it could be African-American, whatever it is. But one of my good, but Alan Bailey, the guy was just Jack, not that he had a poor diet, but I would say my diet was more around meat because that's what I needed. That was my edge to stay in the league. Whereas Alan was just like an absolute freak, big, like a 310 pound version just of Brett, Brett just delts and just arms. and again, he could just eat kind of whatever he wanted and just built muscle. So I think some of those food sensitivity tests too, to find out what your phenotype or what your body, can process the easiest to generate, to stay healthy, to generate muscle, whatever that is, is important to find out as well.

Brett (22:34.158): Yeah, definitely.

OOO (22:38.432): So in terms, I know we kind of talked quickly about like fasting and that's something that I've kind of gotten into with autophagy and, you know, did a 72 hour fast stuff like that. I hear more and more about autophagy, right? As you kind of go through eating cancer, stuff like that, but to actually track it is very difficult because you got to get it on a cellular level. Fasting, we're saying thumbs up, thumbs down, you know, how often should you do it? Does it really make a difference? What are your thoughts there?

Brett (23:06.2): Yeah. Yeah. I think it's helpful to define fasting a little bit because that, it varies a lot in people's heads. What, what fasting means for them, but you know, generally depending on what you ate, your body's going to be in a fasted state, probably four to eight hours after a meal. And, it's essentially processed everything you've eaten, that spike in blood sugar has come back down to normal. And so you can enter a fasted state. You know, relatively quickly after a meal. And then how long you sustain that is generally what we would consider fasting, like how long you've gone before you've eaten. So overnight, you typically, you know, you're fasting, it's, you know, what we call breakfast, breakfast. You're breaking that fast of, you know, no food there. So your body...

OOO (23:52.717): Wait timeout is that's you call it for like I'm 31 years old that just that just hit you that just hit me you're breaking the fast, but holy hell God, I feel like an age. Gosh, you learned something today

Brett (23:59.33): Yeah, man. Gotta break the fast. So, you know, your body needs to have be in periods of feeding and of fasting. And so you need both of those similar to like you need sleep and exercise. You can't just exercise continuously without sleeping without collapsing and you're not going to just sleep continuously. You need to be you need to eat like eating is good. You also need to have periods where you don't eat. There is so much debate even amongst the highest level of specialists in this world on like What is the optimal amount of time between meals and should you eat two in a day or one or should you eat every three hours? And I don't know that we'll ever come up with a very clear answer. I think there's some components of it are just every human body is a little different and so there may be people that do really well with certain types of eating schedules versus someone else. But I think generally speaking, doing a basically intermittent fasting where you go.

10 to 16 hours without eating. Or a better way of looking at it is having a strict feeding window when you're eating, I eat all my food between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. is really helpful because it gives your body ample time of no food to really process and digest that. And then all sorts of cellular things change and transition when you're when you're not eating. And so that is probably the ideal. At least that's the consensus right now is doing like a feeding window of about eight hours, maybe up to 10 in a day. And then you don't eat generally one to two hours before you wake up. And then you try to avoid eating anything about three hours prior to bedtime.

OOO (25:43.486): And is that just, mean, you talk about people are like, Oh, intermittent fasting has helped me lose so much weight. Well, it's really still calories in calories out, right? You're just limiting that window. So at the end of the day, you just can't consume the bag of chips at the end of the night, the cereal before bed. mean, your chips and guac is chips and sauce.

Brett (25:58.988): Yeah, I don't know that there's like significant magic effects of intermittent fasting for losing weight. I think it's that it really helps people control their calorie intake. And then they're not also just continuously having spikes in their blood glucose, because they eat at 10 p.m. and at 5 a.m. and again and again and again. But yeah, mean, there's all sorts of claims about the power of fasting, and some of it may be true. I just think the general idea is that you should have deliberate periods where you do not eat food and it shouldn't be just when you're sleeping.

OOO (26:35.03): All right. My last one is autophagy. I'm sorry. Go for I'm very, you know, I'm very into this one. What, you know, you read different things, right? There's different tests. It's like, hey, you know, your body goes into autophagy after 24 hours and you read something else at 36, something else 48, and then you see like 72, right? That was awful trying to do 72, right? Like, but there was a truth to it that you got after the 48 hours. Like, okay, like I'm okay, right? I fought through some BS. I'm okay.

Brett (26:53.74): Yeah.

OOO (27:02.902): Like your body's incredible at what it can handle and what it can do. Is that another word for saying getting into ketosis, right? Would that be autophagy would basically autophagy isn't that when you started to your own set, like all that, which, which keeps ketosis is when it starts eating your own body, your own stored fat for fuel. Correct. So is that something that you're like, Hey, if you're, you know, if you're a healthy, you know, 30 to whatever your old male, like, yeah, try it, see what happens. Like be a guinea pig. Or you're like, nah, there's really, you know,

Brett (27:19.5): Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's converting fat.

Brett (27:28.462): Mm-hmm.

OOO (27:33.431): There's no science behind it.

Brett (27:37.23): Yeah, I mean, there are definitely some things that occur in the body, some cellular changes and hormonal changes that come with prolonged fasting. I think you can get the majority of the benefit of that though with doing like a 12 to 24 hour fast. The value of a greater than 24 hour fast, I think is mostly in the mental. And this is somewhat of my opinion, but you know there is some value in just like doing something difficult that you didn't think you could do, whether that's fasting or some physical challenge, but to break your mind of like, I need to be eating all the time and realize like, I'm okay. Like I will survive if I wait on this meal or if you go two or three days without eating. It does give your body a chance to essentially clean itself out though, like a prolonged fast. I mean, your GI tract will mostly empty out and you can have a lot of like,

OOO (28:12.054): Do hard things, yeah. Okay.

Brett (28:37.846): Autophagy, think is I like just describing it as like a cleanup. Your body's kind of like going through and just eating up stuff that it doesn't need anymore. That does happen. Like even when you're eating food, like autophagy is

you know, it's something your body's doing all the time. But there's some unique things that happen during fasting. So I don't usually recommend fasting for more than 24 hours to patients unless they have like a mental or spiritual purpose. And it needs to be very specific of like, I'm trying to do this for X amount of reasons. And it needs to be kind of planned, especially if you're doing more than three days, like you really need to kind of pay attention to what you're doing and make sure you're getting enough salt and water, you're going to get really low blood pressure and feel super lightheaded.

OOO (28:56.194): Okay.

OOO (29:20.948)L: That did, that did happen. That was bad. Like there were a few times I went to pick up my, my six month old and I was like, there was some, there was some black spots going on. Like, all right, I got to sit down like lemon water with salt. And after that, I was actually feeling pretty good.

Brett (29:24.044)

Yeah.

OOO (29:35.252): I like what you said there, Brett, about the mental battle there. That's almost why I always hated running growing up because running for me was always a sense of like, was like a disciplinary act of like, you screwed up or you're talking, go run a lap. So when I run, it's almost like innate in me my whole life. was like running a lap was like punishment. So now when I go run, you know, three miles, I got to break that of like, Hey, I enjoy this. I never really enjoy it. It's more of like a mental battle I have, like not just physically it hurts.

Brett (29:48.482): Yeah.

OOO (30:03.488): But mentally, if I tell myself I'm going go run six miles, I'm going go run a 10 K you get to that mile marker four in your head and you're now you're battling yourself of like, I don't, I'm hurting. want to quit. This sucks. This sucks. Quit, quit, quit, quit. And then you're like, Nope. Then you get them out five. Then you get them out six. I did do a doathlon sprint. you know, you run two miles by 12, then you run a, a five K at the end of it. And I was dog tired.

Brett (30:12.258): Yeah.

OOO (30:29.526): Uh, and that last mile, it was like, all right, just walk, just walk, just walk. And you're just battling yourself. So the mental, not just the physical, but the mental aspect of it, the mind is an amazing thing. And, uh, that internal struggle you have is, is, is the real deal. Oh, I have, have one. Um, so we kind of talked about nutrition, talked about these things, time to spill the beans, Brett. I knew you were going to worst. I didn't know if I could afford creatine worst I ever done. Right.

Brett (30:29.784): Yeah.

OOO (30:59.208): Up until three days ago, someone may have popped a couple peptides. Tried it out. I'm trying it out.

What we have some high testosterone up here in Michigan. I don't know what you guys are like in Oregon. you saw the lab, didn't it? You saw the labs. They were good. So I don't know what is the testosterone levels like over there in Oregon for you and for your, your folks and what what's worked for you. And it comes to, cause right now the big thing is TRT in our age group and our, in our area, TRT peptides. Let's jump into some of the, some of that stuff.

Brett (31:34.286): Yeah, well on the question of testosterone levels, for guys who are not taking TRT and that like 30, let's say 30 to 40, 45 maybe, so young, but not in their 20s, I find most guys are hovering between, with their total testosterone, hover somewhere between about 400 and maybe up to 600, but it's pretty rare that I find guys who are over 600, less than 5 % of the time. And that's really among pretty healthy guys, like a huge percentage of my patients are firefighters in that kind of professions where they're pretty physically active and engaged. I commonly see guys in our age group, 30 to 40 though, that are under

OOO (32:00.762): Okay. Okay.

Brett (32:26.766): 300 even, which is obviously quite low. I think an optimal testosterone would be somewhere between 500 and 1,000 as the total testosterone. And then of course the free tea, it does matter, but there's a lot of factors into what your optimal numbers should be. And it's not all the same for everyone.

OOO (32:51.694): So, so to that, you got, mentioned the range and it's like, the range has changed so significantly. It used to be like 200 to 700, which from someone, from an outsider's perspective, that's super wide. Now we're saying five to a thousand, like, like that, like, what does that range really mean? I guess it's kind of my question. And like, why we keep moving it up. We keep, you know, why is it just new studies are coming out is

Brett (33:04.13): Yeah.

OOO (33:16.572): why the fluctuation, how big that range is.

Brett (33:20.43): Yeah, mean, for the most part, the reference ranges have kind of hovered around somewhere between 300 to 900 or 1,000. That's been relatively consistent. But you'll see every lab will establish their own reference range, and they will vary, maybe 100 to up to 200 points. And some of that just has to do with how the lab determines its reference ranges. But I think from a medical professional standpoint,

OOO (33:42.974): Mm-hmm.

Brett (33:47.918): what would be considered unanimously low would be a total T that's under 300. And then I think unanimously high would be somewhere over a thousand on a regular basis. So that usually makes up kind of the typical range that a medical professional is gonna be thinking of is somewhere between 300 and a thousand.

OOO (34:07.465): I wonder if you're testosterone levels. I was just thinking Jake correlate to how far you hit a golf ball. It's got to be because there's not many people that hit a golf ball further than me except for Jake. My testosterone 750 Jake somehow is 850 and Jake's a strong dude. He's not overly tall. I mean, I'm taller than him.

Brett (34:25.314): Yeah. Nice way of saying huge words.

OOO (34:26.39): You're not gonna look at me that's a big duty. hits a great dude. Going into the guard, you wouldn't say that guy hits a long golf ball. Me walking over there, I'm excited to see this guy hit a ball. I bet it goes a far ways. Guys come up to me. Jakes is like a surprising like, oh, I didn't know that was coming out of that guy. I'm 5'9", 185. The most big legs, the most average height numbers. can hit the piss out of a golf ball. Like it goes a mile. So maybe we should do a study on testosterone levels and drive distance.

Brett (34:34.691): Yeah.

OOO (34:55.638): Got it. Matt Wenner, another listener here. I'm to have to get his testosterone tested. Big strong, he's strong dude. Looking dude. Doesn't hit a very far of golf ball somehow. Um, so yeah, we're gonna have to maybe do a side study on testosterone and drive. We're going to have to at least take a couple of days to figure it, test this out from the office. Yeah. Put that out. Yeah. Company expense Royce. We got, doing a study for the podcast. Um, I think everyone here's another question too. So let's just say I come into your clinic and I am a

Brett (35:02.467): Yeah.

OOO (35:25.302): 300 level, 400 level testosterone. All right, I'm 35, 40 and I want, I need to get on testosterone. What does that commitment look like? Cost, time, now am I gonna be on, what is it gonna cost somebody a month or a year? And then how long are they gonna be on it? Is that rumor true? Like once I get on it, now I'm gonna be on it for the rest of my life? I have to do this now for the next 60 years of my life? know, like what does that commitment look like?

Brett (35:50.958): Yeah, well, if you're starting on testosterone, there's kind of two ways you can get it. There's a ton of clinics now that like my especially big online ones you can join like Cone or something else like that where you can just pay a monthly fee and then be on essentially have testosterone prescribed to you for as long as you want. Those generally cost you somewhere between.

150 to 300 a month. You know, they vary a little bit, but that's pretty standard if you're just going through one of these like online clinics and a lot of local ones like even mine is a monthly recurring cost. You can go through your insurance and just kind of like, let's say your primary care guy is checking it for you and it's low and he's like, yeah, I'll start you on it. You can get insurance to cover that, but you have, it has to be consistently under 300.

And then in theory, it's free. mean, obviously you still have your costs of having insurance and whatever. But testosterone.

OOO (36:48.279): Is there something that you should say to a physician to kind of help your cause a little bit? you know how people when they need a Ritalin, they're like, I can't focus and whatever it's like, here you go. Is there something you should walk in there and be like, I can't.

Brett (36:54.947): Yeah.

What's the magic phrase? I mean, yeah, from a medical professional's point of view, you have to have symptoms.

OOO (37:01.238): you know, whatever it is, is there something you should say?

Brett (37:09.87): If you're coming to me and you're like, feel so great and we just happen to check your testosterone and it's like 400 or even 350, but all I hear from you is you're feeling great. I'm not going to put you on testosterone because there needs to be some amount of like, I feel, you know, fatigued, out, low libido. There's got to be some symptoms. And then you're usually just...need to let them know that it's been like consistent. You know, it's not like, hey, I felt tired three days ago. I wonder if my T's low. It needs to be a kind of a pretty consistent pattern of at least three months of like, I'm doing everything I can. My sleep's fine. I'm, you know, doing a normal life, but I just feel like I don't have physical energy and all those sorts of things. And then you're still going to find

OOO (37:50.646): Are you able to tell us because there's one part of my question earlier Brett that you've never answered. Have you tried?

Brett (37:52.33): Some doctors will either check it or they won't. I think most people are in one of two camps of like, don't mess with testosterone, I'm not going to check it, like don't ask me about it. Or they're like much more open or going to look at it for you and try to give you some feedback on it. But yeah, you can always ask and just sometimes you just have to say like, just, I want this test, just order it for me.

OOO (38:20.756): And if you want to say no comment, guess you can say that. Have you experienced TRT?

Brett (38:26.894): Yes, yeah. When I was like 27, it was before I'd done like, I mean, at that age, most men don't do any medical care, so I hadn't done anything. But I was constantly exhausted. Like, I just felt so worn out. My sleep was fine. I was like, I don't know. It was enough for me to want to go see a doctor so I went and saw a guy. They checked a bunch of stuff, but my testosterone at that time was like 100 and 75, 180, somewhere in that range. And so, you we did a whole long process. I had to have it repeated. It was still that low. Then I had to see a urologist and went through all these tests and they're like, yeah, we don't know why, but you just have really low T for whatever reason. Your testicles just decided to quit. So, uh, they were like, you can go on testosterone or you can just keep living like you're living. was like, well, let's do testosterone. So since that time I have been off and on, what happens is I'll get on it for a while and it like, it's super effective. I feel much better. I feel. normal is the better way of saying it. don't feel like a superhuman. just feel I don't feel terrible anymore. But I kind of just get tired of doing shots and dealing with blood work and follow up and I'm like, yeah, you know what, I'll be fine without it. And since I started it

And I've stopped and started like, I don't know, four or five times for, I mean, we had kids, so I stopped it for a while so we could have kids. And then it seems like my normal levels of production vary between about 300 and 400. So it's never got as low as it did before.

but it stays just chronically right on edge. And so I go back and forth. I'm tired of dealing with a little bit of dragging and feeling lack of energy, long recovery time, so I'll get back on it. So I'm on it right now, but I cycle off and on periodically.

OOO (40:12.228): So, sorry, Jay. So I saw the after picture. When we were recruiting you for this podcast, Lindy showed me a picture. I think you were holding maybe one of your children or stacked. Before, were you not so stacked? have you genetically always been pretty easy to lose body fat? Because I think, what are you down, like what a...

Maybe it is now or whatever, but you got down to like 6 % probably, or maybe lower than that. And were you not like that when you, before?

Brett (40:35.468): Yeah, I mean

No, I mean, that's, it's probably like slightly more muscle and maybe a little leaner when I'm on testosterone, but I don't think it's dramatic. In fact, the picture, think, I don't know exactly what picture it is, but I don't think I was on testosterone during that picture. I was, yeah, if I was on the baby, I probably was not on it. So, I mean, a lot of that's just been my...

OOO (40:52.636): Lindy's just showing pictures of you with shirt There's all kinds of pictures. We're all looking at them.

Brett (41:03.342): my routine of like consistently exercising and I'm pretty tall. It's easier for tall guys to look a little leaner. And then I stay, especially when I was younger, I was very diligent on my diets. I really paid attention to my macros. So kind of doing all the things that are within my control to just be as lean as I can. And then I just did absurd amounts of exercise. Like I could not.

OOO (41:10.986): Mm-hmm.

OOO (41:20.084): Yeah. So in whole, what I'm hearing is it's not just an easy button. There's still a lot of work involved. It's not just, I'm going jump on TRT and I'm going to look like Superman. Well, and that's kind of the question I wanted to ask. It's like...

Brett (41:26.07): keep muscle on really because I just was constantly doing, I don't know, all sorts of stuff, but just a lot of different types of exercise and too much.

Brett (41:37.954): Yeah, 100%.

Brett (41:42.316): Yeah, for sure.

OOO (41:46.646): You for the guy you said like, Hey, I don't want to go through the shots. I don't want to through the shots and the blood work and all that. You know, is it, you know, what's the most natural way to increase tests, right? If they're like, Hey, is it, is it the lifestyle? Is it just putting in the work or is it something, you know, what have you found outside of TRT to kind of improve?

Brett (42:04.311): Yeah.

Brett (42:10.798): Yeah, well, and I'll say, uh, if you're not on testosterone and you're consider, you know, your levels are, I don't know, three, four hundreds or five hundreds, even in your considering it. And that medical person's like, do it. You should absolutely before you do, you should make sure that your lifestyle and routine is like really dialed in before, because you can fluctuate your levels of testosterone.

I mean, but you can double or triple it sometimes just by making sure you're sleeping well, eating properly and exercising. but if you're going for the biggest bang for your buck, the two most significant things to raise testosterone naturally is going to be, really resistance training, especially doing like heavy ish lifting, like compound movements, you know, things where you're to use multiple muscle groups, hand clean squats, bench press, that kind of stuff.

OOO (42:57.341): Hell yeah. Hang cleans. Hang cleans, squats, deadlifts, bench press. It's all the things we love. Pull ups.

Brett (43:05.634): Yeah, pull ups, even push ups. Like you don't necessarily have to be doing heavy weight, it's doing, know, it's load bearing on the muscles is gonna stimulate testosterone. But that's not for like one week. You gotta be consistent for, you know, a month or two to really get a good response and then sleep's the second most critical. You have to be sleeping well.

OOO (43:15.055): Be a lot cooler if you did. Yeah. So to recap that, right? There's no, and I've always said this, like fitness isn't in a bottle, right? I mean, there's some things that you can do and when, and we're going to get into this. Cause I know you're chomping at the bit for peptides, but

Brett (43:33.506): Yeah, for sure.

OOO (43:38.718): like, hey, check your check yourself first, right? Are you doing the right things? Are you exercising, you know, make a lifestyle change? Are you you know, you going eating chicken wings and pizza for lunch? Are you having beers after work? There's a time and a place but at the end of the day, make sure you're doing all the right things and and you know, the rest follows. You also got to live right? I guess it's just figuring out maybe it's one day a week, two days a week. But when you're doing it every day, it's gonna catch you and

Brett (43:50.445): Yeah. Yeah.

OOO (44:03.67): When I see a lot of people, I think it's all a balance, right? Right. You see people who they're like, Oh, I'm so locked in. I'm locked in. I'm locked in. And they, you know, they lose a ton of weight, but they're just like, this lifestyle isn't sustainable for you. You're eating, it has become a lifestyle. You're eating 1200 calories a day. Like that's not sustainable. You got to figure out a way to do it further for the long haul. So, um, again, I know you're chomping at the bit peptides, peptides. What is, have you experimented with them at all?

Brett (44:03.832): Yeah, for sure.

OOO (44:32.222): have, is there certain ones that you would recommend?

Brett (44:36.492): Yeah, I will say, know, peptides is a huge, like category that can mean different things for different people. There there's a.

ton of different peptides available. I would be very cautious of using stuff that's either new or that you don't really understand what it's doing, even if your buddy's like, dude, you gotta take this, I promise it's gonna work. It's worth really diving into figuring out what it is, how it works. Ideally, you'd have a medical professional kinda helping you on that, but I know there's very few that do. I will say that of the peptides that's around, the few that I am in favor

of and that if trialed are going to be BPC 157 and then that in combination at times with TB 500. Those are like well studied, been around for a long time, reliable, they really do help accelerate your repair and recovery especially from injuries and it's they're quite effective. That and then there's

OOO (45:24.562): Elise, write this down.

Brett (45:41.462): some growth hormone related peptides. There's quite a few actually, but the most tried and true is Tessamerelin. That's actually an FDA approved drug called Agrifida, but it's also a peptide you could buy from wherever. That will cause your body to produce more growth hormone and growth hormone is an excellent hormone for helping develop muscle, burn body fat. It actually does help improve your sleep quality. But with any peptide, should

it's not something you can just stay on continuously forever. There's just not enough data to support that it's safe for 20 years of use. So you just need to keep that in mind too if you're going to need trial stuff.

OOO (46:22.211): What do those cycles look like or how long should one stay on them and then take a break off them or what's your take?

Brett (46:27.788): Yeah, it kind of depends on which one, but for the most part, the standard cycles are three to six months at a time and then stopping for probably the same amount of time you use. you can rotate, you can use like BPC 157 for a few months and then stop and start using something different. You know, they work very differently in the body, so it's okay to sort of stack them. But it's, I think for me, if I'm going to help a patient figure out what to use, I

OOO (46:35.382): Okay.

Brett (47:00.368): them to have a very specific reason they're using it because otherwise if you're just taking it for like I don't know I just want to feel better it's really hard to gauge whether that's happening and that's not a good enough metric for me to say like yeah this is worth doing it should be like a more specific goal like I just had surgery I want to recover faster I'm dealing with this I don't know torn Achilles and I want it to get better sooner or I'm doing you know some I have a big athletic competition or whatever it may be to try to help improve your muscle strength stamina

OOO (47:30.382): What if it is I want to go to Lifetime and put on a show? So what peptide would put me in the best, put me in the best position to be a mutant over at Lifetime? That's where I'm at now. That's what I live for now, Brett. used to be. It's all Frank. Now it's only thing I got is you walk into Lifetime. look at that guy's pretty, you know, big. That's it. That's That's where I'm at now.

Brett (47:42.614)Yeah.

Yeah, it's all about that, right?

Yeah. Man, I mean, there's a lot of things that if you're really

OOO (47:58.314): or walk around NAPA just puffed up, just jagged through your vest. How do we get there?

Brett (48:02.638): Yeah, well, in terms of the peptides alone, any of the growth hormone, they call them growth hormone secretagogues, but peptides that increase growth hormone are going to help you a lot. Tessameralin is one I mentioned. There's CJC1295, Ipameralin, MK67. There's a bunch of different ones. They do work a little differently than each other, but for the most part, the end result is the same. You're getting more growth hormone in the body, and that's going to help you build muscle faster.

OOO (48:19.734): Are you

Brett (48:32.224): It's not going to do it just because you took it. have to be doing heavy lifting to build muscle. You have to be doing it.

OOO (48:38.189): That's not Frank's problem. I'll say that for free. Yeah. So. Well, I feel well, I feel huge strength gains if I'm bench pressing a certain amount and I'm on this for a month, am I going to see and I'm just doing the same word. Am I going to see a bigger bump than I would before being on some type of

Brett (48:57.07): You will see strength gains a little faster, but you'll note, you'll look bigger and you'll feel that. You can tell your muscles will feel a little bit more like full. And some of that's because you'll get a little bit of water attachment to the muscle too. It kind of like, yeah.

OOO (49:11.766): Should I stay on creatine and be on CJC or any type of peptide?

Brett (49:18.988): Yeah, you should stay on creatine for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I would use, go ahead.

OOO (49:20.566): Alright. Alright. What I've taken from a lot of this though is that you are always in the camp of having a better lifestyle, changing lifestyles before we go into supplementation. Would you? Okay.

Brett (49:37.725): for sure. Yeah. I mean, there's no shortcut to good diet, exercise and sleep.

And you can take all the peptides and steroids you want. And if you're not doing those things, you're still not going to look like you want to look. I mean, even a bodybuilder is a good example. I think most people get fixed on like what they're taking and all their gear and whatnot. But the majority of their effort is spent on an unbelievably strict diet and continuous progressive overload. They are so faithful to go to the gym and do progressive overload training every single day or, you know, their routine of whatever.

OOO (50:10.174): Well, then you look at one of the goats and Ronnie Coleman and the Duke can not stand up anymore.

Right for any bodybuilding fans out there. Like you can't squat 800 pounds for 20 years and then be OK. So but it's a lot. It's pretty cool when you can. like that you said progressive overload is the type of workouts. Have you ever followed a guy Charles Poliquin? Does that name ring a bell to you at all? Who's a strength code? OK, big progressive overload guys. Kind of how I've based my workouts over the last 10 years or so.

Brett (50:16.238): Yeah, you can push a little further than you need.

Brett (50:24.322): Yeah.

Brett (50:33.934): I'm familiar with them, but I haven't followed any of the stuff specifically.

OOO (50:43.816): And a big thing of working out to tell everybody, keeping track of your weights. Don't be the guy that goes to the gym or the female that goes to the gym. And you're just like, I'm going to bench press today. Have a plan. Write your weights down from one week, go a little bit more the next week, do a little bit more the following week. And that's how you progressively overload. but you have to be able to keep track of it some way or form. can't be like, wait, what did I do last week? I think it was two 25. It's like, just screwed yourself your waist. Now you're not, not that you're not wasting your time.

Brett (51:05.4): Yep. Yep.

OOO (51:11.2): But again, you're not gonna, you'll go here, but you could get here by doing that the right way and yeah. For sure. Yeah.

OOO (51:17.982): Yeah, well Brett, has been appreciate you coming on. I think again this is another thing we could talk about for for awhile. We want to be respectful of your time. If there's one thing and I think we probably covered it is probably be redundant, but one piece of advice you're giving for anyone out there that's just trying to be better in their everyday life. What would that be?

Brett (51:26.7): Yeah, sure. man, that's good. If I'm gonna try to make it one thing, I would say move outside. I think the value of just being outside, being in sun, being exposed to cold heat, whatever is really helpful. And just movement, like whether you hike or run or swim, I mean, your body, you just... it thrives off of being active and moving. so that's something that I think there's mental benefits of just sort of like going on a hike, being around outside and kind of checking out of the screens and the TV and all the stuff that we kind of get sucked into. And so I think for your mental and physical benefit, just move around outside.

OOO (52:26.543): And I love that too. A big thing for me right now is not just improving your lifespan, it's your health span and being able to go on those hikes when you're 70 years old. You got grandkids, you want to go on a hike or you want to take your grandkids to Disney World.

And I don't have to be in one of those little moped things, you know, whatever, hung around. can actually carry my grandchild and I can go to the next, you know, something like that. Um, I was listening to that Peter Taya book too. And he's like, you should be doing like, hang on some monkey bars. I was, I remember I was listening to the podcast or his, uh, book while I was cutting my grass and I'm going and then he's like, you should be able to hang for like three minutes. And I was like, just driving by my kids, like play set. And I was like, the lawnmower off. And I hung there. I hit my watch like timer.

Brett (52:41.87): Yeah. Yeah, it's good.

OOO (53:11.03): And it was like 90 seconds in and all of sudden I'm like ripping at my lats and I'm like, this is terrible. Like there's a, like just doing a certain thing. And the reason that's important too is like, once you get older, he says like the way you're going to die after like 70, 75, 80 is a trip and fall bone density. Trip and fall, you get hurt like that. And then your health just drastically takes like a downhill. And

Brett (53:11.383): Yeah.

OOO (53:37.738): You should have strong grip strength in case you are going to fall. You can grab onto that railing or something like that and just little things like that. Preparing yourself from when you're older and and you can live a better life longer. But sorry to go on that little spiel there at the end there. Close out. Well, Brett, once again, buddy, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you. We appreciate your time and I think this is some that maybe you know we got our blood work done again and we gotta bring Brett back on for a little review.

Brett (53:47.65): Yeah, totally.

Brett (54:04.814): Yeah, man, give me a call. I'd be happy to go through it with you. It'd be fun.

OOO (54:08.604): Awesome man. Well, thank you again buddy. Thanks Brett.

Brett (54:10.86): Yeah, thank you guys. Bye.

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